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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded

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muggsw6

06-16-2006 06:27:17




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Allen, thanks for the suggestions, I couldn't help but think along the same lines. Glad to hear it from someone else. The local"expert" suggested that the converter was bad, I wasn't buyin' that! This trans was out of another truck that was in an accident, had been overhauled 3,000 miles before, bought from a friend of mine. The trans was out of this truck when I bought it. The harness in the old (mine) was swapped into the replacement trans,(Jeez, that sounds complicated) as it was broken in the wreck. As an aside, the truck was purchased from a VERY large seed company who did nothing but pull a 30 ft. GN trailer with it. The truck was set up to pull w/vacuum over hyd brakes, very hd 5th plate etc., But NO TRANS COOLER????? The trans that was out of it was the 2nd replacement and was completely fried, with only 77,000 miles. I guess they must have saved a couple bucks by buying it that way????? Penny wise, pound foolish??? Anyway, I'll check out the connector this weekend. Thanks Allen,Mark

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buickanddeere

06-16-2006 08:09:45




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to muggsw6, 06-16-2006 06:27:17  
I had some "bright lights" build a trans more than once. Both the dealer under warrenty and two different independent shops. They all told me the clutches were burning out due to all the HP. I said B.S. those rear tires have 30,000 miles on them and the tread depth is still legal. I'm not out racing or squealing tires. I finally got the last shop to install a pressure gauge well,well, well. The clutch apply presssure too low in all "gears" and she was slipping. This last transmission has lasted longer/farther than the other six combined. An aftermarket shift kit never hurt any towing transmission, electronic or not. If the torque convertor isn't locking the trans temps will go sky high.

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Allan In NE

06-16-2006 09:30:32




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to buickanddeere, 06-16-2006 08:09:45  
Your "Bright Lights" doesn't know what he's talking about.

All GM transmissions run a line pressure of roughly 63 lbs in neutral, park and all forward gears with 120 lbs being applied in reverse because of the double reduction of that gear. No exceptions.

Oil pressure of electronic versions of any given transmission are computer controlled with a stepping motor. Change that pressure any substantial amount and it upsets the whole apple cart as far as shifting/feel is concerned.

If the line pressure was reading low, the transmission either had a plugged filter, a bad pump (which I doubt) or more than likely a blown seal, plain and simple, which is typical of GM lip-seal design.

Further, pull-thru on a clutch pack is very, very easy with high output engines even tho the build is correct. They just were not designed to tow, period. Ever. I don't care what the salesman says.

GM finally realized this and went to the Allison. Now that, boys and girls, is a transmission. :>)

Allan

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buickanddeere

06-16-2006 14:10:31




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to Allan In NE, 06-16-2006 09:30:32  
That TH200R-4 in the Grand National did not have enough line pressure, it was letting the clutch packs slip. I was there and seen the gauge. I also had an aftermarket shift kit and external oil cooler with the Jimmy's 4L60E transmission. I towed plenty of 5000-6000lb loads on extended trips without a fault. The shifts were not harsh but were noticibly firmer and occured over a short transittion time from one clutch pack release to another's apply.

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Allan In NE

06-16-2006 14:46:25




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to buickanddeere, 06-16-2006 14:10:31  
Yes Sir, I know.

I've used those shift kits by the truckful myself on the trannys that use a "timed" shift (like the 4L60). Ya about have to, to make 'em bullet proof. Gotta sacrifice feel to get that "burn time" down to a minimum.

I still say the biggest fault with the GM trannys are the silly way they use a lip seal. If they would have went with a simple square cut o-ring like ol' Henery did in his transmissions, they would have been a lot tougher unit.

Allan

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buickanddeere

06-17-2006 06:46:10




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to Allan In NE, 06-16-2006 14:46:25  
At least the aftermarket makes a decent heavy duty 1st gear drum with inproved seals and a real bearing. Add the Corvette 2nd gear servo piston, a wider aftermarket 2nd gear band. Then the late pump, five gear plaentaries if not already equiped and of course the shift kit. Makes a 4L60E just about industrial strength if equiped with a Precision Industries Torque Convertor. Same treatment makes a all mechcanical shift TH700R-4 abuse resistant as well.

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Bob

06-16-2006 10:16:27




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to Allan In NE, 06-16-2006 09:30:32  
Tell that to my friend, who has an '01 with the 8.1 liter and an Allison. (He's nearly 50 years old, and NOT a "hot rodder". If it weren't for the extended warrantee he purchased when he bought the pickup new, that tranny would have BROKE him!)



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muggsw6

06-16-2006 08:09:27




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to muggsw6, 06-16-2006 06:27:17  
Fluid is OK, learned a long time ago that heat is the killer. Early in my draggin days, an engine builder friend was curious about how much heat was generated in the converter by the trans-brakes we were using at the time. With a 8inch, approx. 4500 stall converter hooked to a 600hp sbc, wide open on the brake, it made 75 degrees a second. After 7 or 8 seconds, it burnt all the paint off the converter, and the trans upchucked a big load of fluid!! He said "well, now we know the answer to that question" LOL Mark

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McRay

06-16-2006 07:26:47




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to muggsw6, 06-16-2006 06:27:17  
Try to check oil on dip stick to see if fluid is discolored or smells burnt. Find someone with a scanner to see what transmittion is doing. I ran 3500 chev diesel with 4L80 trans pulling a 12000 lbs loads no problems. Might also check to see what fluid looks like in pan.



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Allan In NE

06-16-2006 07:00:13




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to muggsw6, 06-16-2006 06:27:17  
Mornin' Mark,

While you're under there and just for fun, pull that converter cover. See if that converter has turned blue from the heat. Also, if that model has been overheated, the oil will have the most un-Godly putred smell you've ever encountered. It will make you wanna gag.

A sure fire way to tell if it is on it's way out is to pull that pan. If it has any signs of "soot" in the bottom, she's trying to leave ya.

Gotta be honest with ya, GM's older transmissions just did not handle towing all that well.

Guess that is why I stayed so darned busy doing trannys alone. :>)

Allan

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Allan In NE

06-16-2006 07:07:53




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 Re: Allen/ 4L80E problem, kind of long-winded in reply to Allan In NE, 06-16-2006 07:00:13  
Should add tho,

The only enemy they have is the heat and if a guy can get enough cooling to 'em, they are fairly reliable.

The only cooler that I ever thought was worth a damn was that square "Auxrillary Cooler" from GM. It's the only one that can disapate the heat away from that guy.

Allan

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