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OT or maybe not.

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Animal

06-02-2006 19:36:27

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I am dog tired tonight but I felt compelled to write this ditty. I hired a young man to give me a hand this summer he is a senior in high school this fall and a nicer kid you will never meet. since I have had him working for me I have had him stacking wood, pulling weeds and these sorts of chores. This kid is far from lazy, but the one thing I have noticed is that he never seems to complete a task, for instance at the wood pile I wanted it so I can mow around the wood, I got to checking and found maybe a dozen hunks that would wreck a lawn mower, In the weed patch I found a half dozen weeds that he mist. This kid is going a half of day of summer school because he flunked a semester of english. I certainly do not fault him for that because that is why I sat behind the smartest girl in our school in all the classes that were tough for me and I am sure lots of you all know what I mean. Our school is out here the last week in May and to make up this entire semester he will complete summer school the 23 of this month! That in itself sounds strange to me but it even gets better. Last evening we got one of those toad strangling rains so I spent the day in the shop mounting a belly mower on an F12, the ladd ask me when I picked him up what our plans were for the day and I told him what I was doing, he was happy about that and then told me he had been a straight A student for the past two years in shop. When we got to work one of the first things I wanted him to do was wind up the leads for the welder, not only did he not know what the leads were he did not know what a welder was, and the shop knowledge went down hill from there. I did not want to come out with out any tact and ask him what I was thinking, so I ask him what kind of a fellow was his shop teacher, then he informed me that he had had three different teachers in the past year and the last one being a woman fresh out of college. I ask him how many girls was in this shop class and he said none..... This boy comes from a family of very meager means and yes I suppose they are on some kind of assistance, the chance of this kid going on to college is like a snow balls chance in hell! This type of nonsense in our schools systems just makes my skin crawl, he will have the need for this high powered english class as much as I will need a space shuttle sitting next to my bean field. This poor kid can not even drive a garden tractor, but I swear before the summers over he will have some mechanical and farm knowledge and an older pick up truck that he can call his own, thats how much I like the boy. We all know how hard it is to get farm help, and thats why I have mixed feelings about mexican labor, but in this case has the system failed us or have we failed the system by letting it run rampit with our tax dollars. If you think I am off base here or I have missed something let me know as I have always valued everyones advice and input on these boards immensely..... ..... .

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Jay in MN

06-07-2006 20:16:47

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to Animal, 06-02-2006 19:36:27

I think years ago Jeff Foxworthy said it best -- once I would like to see a kid on Oprah and say my mom was great, dad was great, I'm just a s$8thead. There are some kids that just dont get "it" no matter what is done to help them. I beleive parents have a great role in how their children will end up. The answer is NOT in high school or middle school. There "NEEDS" need to be PARENT INVOLVEMENT birth through elementry. Studies have shown children will learn the most of who they will be before five years old. That lays on the parents. If you let your kids sit in front of the TV most of the day you will end up with a child who does not want to do anything else. I feel also that no matter what the parents did in school does not reflect the child in school. If you do not know how to help with the homework -- learn how to with the child. I support my family soley on my income (less than 40k a year), I have three small children the oldest starting kindergarten this fall, and if I need a second job to ensure my childrens education so be it. If parents feel they need to complain about any school district I will say this -- quit complaining and do something -- join the school board, talk with people to try to make it better. Just do not sit there and whine like a 2 year old because your tax's went up a few hundred (??) dollars a year.

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Bret4207

06-03-2006 05:00:06

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to Animal, 06-02-2006 19:36:27

I don't care whose fault it is, the kids got you now. I'd say you ahve the chance to point him in a good direction, give him some knowledge and experience and pass your ethics on to him. In other words, you can be his mentor. I learned more in 16 months from a Marine CWO-4 than I learned from during the rest of my time in the Corps. He taught me a lot and straightened me out. You can do the same. The kid probably doesn't KNOW he's not finishing stuff. Attention to detail is the key. Challenge him a little, help him understand the job and make sure it's done right, then reward him.

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Nebraska Cowman

06-03-2006 04:08:24

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to Animal, 06-02-2006 19:36:27

I'd say you are doing the right thing, helping him lean the things that were never taught anywhere else. Don't fault his parents or the school. Just do your part and all will turn out for the better. Maybe there is a tech school nearby that he could attend and board with you? He could help you out part-time and you could pay the tuition? Might keep another young man out of jail.

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Midwest redneck

06-03-2006 01:42:11

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to Animal, 06-02-2006 19:36:27

My 2 cents here. I would say to the kid, I will give you 5 bucks IF--you pick up all the wood on the ground and then go to the wood pile and see if all the wood is picked up then give him the $5 and then go from task to task this way. Second--his parents are probably idiots. The kid also needs some mentoring and common sense that the school(s) dont or cant teach. Good Luck. I am glad that I started working on cars at a young age and was able to use reasoning and hard work to get along in life.

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monomechanical

06-02-2006 20:24:17

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to Animal, 06-02-2006 19:36:27

Five general observations. (I will call them "facts," though they are anecdotes.) I'm certain many on this forum can furnish evidence for all five observations.

1. Farming has always required far more intelligence than people suppose. 2.a. Farmers are much smarter than non-farmers assume them to be. (Related to 1.)
b. "Smart" entails problem solving, skill at fabricating (engineering), causal identification, knowing how the world works, creativity, and foresight.
3. People generally, students particularly, these days are not required to be as smart as in times past. (See 2.b.) This point may be controversial, but I think computers and the internet do much of the "brain work" previously done by brains alone.
4. The intelligence gap between farmers and "youngsters," generally, is increasing.

I suppose something like the above can analogized to a work ethic, too. I wonder how many today work as hard as their fathers? I don't work half as hard as mine.

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barnrat

06-03-2006 13:56:49

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to monomechanical, 06-02-2006 20:24:17

Watch what you say ther are some youngsters her that are farmers. Me being one of them.

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Matt from CT

06-03-2006 14:11:51

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to OH Boy, 06-02-2006 20:20:57

Hehe...

Nail hitting the head...

One town near me had a "spontaneous" walkout by 100 of their 400 high school students to protest the defeat the previous night of the proposed budget at town meeting.

Superintendent was quoted in the paper how proud she was of them, how much it reminded her of students back during Vietnam.

Principal on the radio the other day was saying how they "heard rumours" there might be a walkout, but the first time they knew it was happening was while the administrators were in a meeting discussing what to do....when the 2nd bell rung, they realized the hallways where still noisy...

And the kicker, despite the Superintendent, Principal, and Ass't Principal following the students to make sure they'd be "safe"...by that afternoon they realized their jobs where in jeopardy and announced, oh yes, they'll be punishment...One day's detention, oh, by the way, voluntary, since, um, we don't know who walked out...

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Eric Rylander

06-02-2006 20:10:13

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Re: OT or maybe not. in reply to Animal, 06-02-2006 19:36:27

My wife works in the assesment and accountability office of a large, urban school district in the southest US, in this district over 50% of the students qualify for free or reduced price lunch if that's an indicator of the economic circumstances.

That being said, a lot of blame is placed on the school system for a student's short comings when what has been seen by my wife and proven through statistics and test results is this-

Even in the poorest, worst family conditions, the involvement of the parent will make or break a student. When the parent is an uneducated dropout that does not value education the child does not stand much of a chance, but when the parent or guardian is vigilant, the child has a far greater chance of success.

I must commend you for putting up with this kids shortcomings and trying to teach him a thing or two. Mentoring can do everything to aim a young person in the right direction!

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monomechanical

06-02-2006 20:29:34

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the income standard is 55k in reply to Eric Rylander, 06-02-2006 20:10:13

Eric:
I'm not positive but I believe the income threshold is 55k. Any child from a household with income below that number, gets free breakfast and lunch. That number may not be exact, but it's close. I mention it only because the connection between academice performance and income is not easily identified, if there is one at all.

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Wild Bill

06-02-2006 21:04:46

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Re: the income standard is 55k in reply to monomechanical, 06-02-2006 20:29:34

That 55k number is not correct at all, it depends on the number of dependents at home, but poverty level is just under 20K for the average American home. It seems to me that you are blaming the school and not this boys parents, Sure the school is to blame for the revolving door in the shop class and the cheezy summer school, but his parents should have stepped in when he started failing the class to begin with.

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Eric Rylander

06-03-2006 12:24:16

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Re: the income standard is 55k in reply to Wild Bill, 06-02-2006 21:04:46

I'm sorry if anyone got the misconception I was equating poverty with poor school performance!

There is however a more direct corelation between income and education level, IE the education level of the parent/gaurdian, and the less education the parent has, the less LIKELY they will be (there are exceptions everywhere) to show concern or be actively involved in the child's education. And active parental involvement can make or break a kid.

Meanwhile, keep up the good work and at least the kid shows up and does stuff for ya!

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monomechanical

06-02-2006 21:24:02

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Re: the income standard is 55k in reply to Wild Bill, 06-02-2006 21:04:46

I do not have nearly enough information to assign "blame" for the student's performance, though I'd begin focusing on the student. Doubtless, there are multiple contributing factors. I was simply wanting to deny the "loose" causal claim that poverty is responsible for poor academic performance. Obviously, poverty has a deleterious affect at a certain level, but I should think that level very low, having spent most of my life--including the life of my children--living below the poverty line, along with hundreds of generally large Catholic families, and we have all performed . . . . .

mono

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paul

06-02-2006 21:34:18

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Re: the income standard is 55k in reply to monomechanical, 06-02-2006 21:24:02

Parents _non_involvement in their children's lives is the reason. Whatever class of folk, makes no difference.

Both welfare kids & lawyer's kids suffer from the same main problem.

--->Paul

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Nathan in Texas

06-02-2006 20:46:02

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Sorry, that's not correct in reply to monomechanical, 06-02-2006 20:29:34

Not sure where you got your $55k threshold. The school lunch program follows federal poverty guidelines. For a family of 4 that is annual income of $19,350. The free lunch program actually goes up to 130% of the poverty level so that would be $25,155 for a family of 4.

The poverty level increases based on family size, and for a family of 11, $54,821 would be the threshold for the free lunch program so it is actually possible.

I've attached a link to the federal poverty guidelines if you want to doublecheck them.

Federal poverty guidelines

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monomechanical

06-02-2006 21:07:47

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Re: Sorry, that's not correct in reply to Nathan in Texas, 06-02-2006 20:46:02

The document you reference does document govt. poverty standards, but it does not show the "free lunch" requirements. I'll wager a dinner that household income can be well above poverty and students qualify for no-cost breakfast and lunch. This past school year, the local school district sent flyers home with all students, informing them of the school-lunch program and the qualifying numbers they cited were around 55k. The district could have been mistaken but I'd be surprised if they were. I'm willing to be corrected, but have you got further documentation?

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Nathan in Texas

06-02-2006 21:14:15

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Re: Sorry, that's not correct in reply to monomechanical, 06-02-2006 21:07:47

The links for the lunch program all all in PDF format.

For the 2006/2007 school year the family of 4 poverty threshold has risen to $20,000 and the free lunch program for a family of 4 has risen to $26,000.

It's on page 3 of the link below. It is in landscape format so you will have to turn your computer on it's side to read it! ;-)

PDF on Lunch program guidelines

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monomechanical

06-02-2006 21:25:05

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Re: Sorry, that's not correct in reply to Nathan in Texas, 06-02-2006 21:14:15

Thanks for the info. I may owe you dinner . . .

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Nathan in Texas

06-02-2006 21:35:29

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It actually is partially correct in reply to monomechanical, 06-02-2006 21:25:05

On the income eligibility sheet there actually is a $55k number on there. It is for reduced price lunches for a family of 7 or larger. Reduced price lunches are at 185% of the federal poverty guidelines. Not sure but I don't think the discount is very much for reduced price lunches. I know when I was a kid we qualified for reduced price lunches but didn't go through the hassle of filling everything out because we were only going to save 15 cents or something like that.

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