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OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's????

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Tx Jim

04-23-2006 10:27:25




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I'm wanting to see if I can get my truck to get better fuel mileage. Does anyone know how to find a website about Chevy 6.5 diesels called ssdiesel.com? It was mentioned in an earlier thread but when I try it all I get is unavailable to me! Thanks,Jim




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jdemaris

04-24-2006 10:59:23




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-23-2006 10:27:25  
The main issue with your truck if it's a 2000 is the fuel delivery is turned way up. In 2000, I think only one version was available, rated at 195 horse and 430 lbs. of torque (VIN code X, L65). Compare that to an earlier version, like in 1994, there were three versions of the 6.5 - #1 was 155 horse (VIN code P) and 275 lb.s of torque, #2 was 180 horse and 360 lbs. of torque (VIN code S), and #3 was 190 horse and 240 lbs. of torque (VIN code F). Also, keep in mind that these diesels have a much narrower efficiency curve than gas engines - so if the truck's RPMs are high at cruising speed, mileage drops much worse than a gas engine. If you ever buy a truck, used, don't believe mileage stories until you try it. I bought my diesel Suburban from the original owner and he bragged for years that he got 25-30 MPG. It gets 14-20. I also bought a Ford 6.9 F250 from the original owner - he claimed it always got better than 25 MPG. It gets 10 - 14 MPG. Even my dad was a little off. He had a 1970 Buick Skylark with a 350 gas - and raved about the fuel mileage - over 20 he always claimed. Well, he died, and I used it for awhile. 13 MPG was the best it ever got - BUT - it had a large tank and the fuel gauge needle moved nice and slow. Only hurt when filling time came. I was just talking to a young kid that has a fairly new Ford F250 diesel. I asked him what kind of mileage he gets - and he told me that there is no way to calculate the mileage because the truck does NOT have an onboard computer. Hmmm . . . not sure how to respond to that one.

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Tx Jim

04-24-2006 14:38:06




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to jdemaris, 04-24-2006 10:59:23  
jdemaris,can a Chevy Dealer re-program the computer to 155 HP as I don't pull very much weight and I have no need for speed? Thanks,Jim



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Bob

04-24-2006 15:06:13




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-24-2006 14:38:06  
YOU can "reprogram" the 'puter yourself. Just don't mash the "GO pedal" as hard!



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Tx Jim

04-25-2006 06:13:04




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Bob, 04-24-2006 15:06:13  
Bob,my need for speed ceased a few yrs ago and "ALL I'M TRYING TO DO IS TRY TO GET MY TRUCK TO GET BETTER FUEL MILEAGE" and I learned in my old age that pressing harder on fuel pedal is not the correct answer. Sorry if I offended you about the hot oil in an auto. tranny but I still don't think an overdrive auto/lock-up conv. should get 25% less milage than a standard shift. Tx Jim



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jdemaris

04-25-2006 05:46:29




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Bob, 04-24-2006 15:06:13  
Not sure if you're serious or joking, but the problem being attributed to hard-driving is often not based in reality. True, if someone drives like a maniac, more fuel will be used and wasted. But, to the converse, I've had many vehicles where easy driving made little difference. My F250 Ford with the 6.9 diesel is one. It only has 65,000 miles on it and runs great. No visible smoke, no soot in the tailpipe, starts great in cold weather, etc. Fuel mileage is poor. I've had many people claim that if it was driven easy, or slow, mileage would be much better. In this case - and many others - that's nonsense. I took if for a 2000 mile ride last summer across the Upper Penninsula in Michigan and through Canada. Warm weather, all flat land, and we drove a steady 50 MPH just about everywhere - often with the cruise-control set. Fuel mileage hardly changed at all. I think, my best fill up the truck got 13.9 MPG. Here, in the hills, most fill ups with varied driving conditions result in 12 - 13 MPG. I've had several trucks like this - seem to get the same mileage no matter how you drive. That's one of things I like about my 6.2 Chevys. I can drive them easy and empty and the fuel mileage goes way up. My 82 1/2 ton 4WD will get 13 MPG pulling a camper/trailer or heavily loaded, and rise to 24 MPG empty on a flat road. In answer to the question about having a dealer reprogram the fuel system - I suspect a dealer wouldn't be allowed - but I'm not up on all that since all my diesels are mechanically injected and controlled. I know there are lots of aftermarket chip-kits, but I don't know much about them except from what I've read.

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jdemaris

04-23-2006 18:58:15




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-23-2006 10:27:25  
I can't offer much useful advice - but - I do know that the 6.5s could differ quite a bit depending on what truck package and what year. In the heavier trucks, GM was able to turn the fuel delivery up quite a bit and still meet emmissions requirements - and in those trucks fuel mileage was pretty bad if not awful. My neighbor has one he bought new, dual wheels, and he gets 10 - 11 highway. You can tell by your engine sticker and the horsepower rating. I'm always fooling with diesel trucks - I've got a dozen of them. All GM and Ford - I never had a Dodge Cummins yet. Best mileage out of anything I've owned was the 6.2. My 82 1/2 4WD with 6.2 and four-speed stick with overdrive can get 24 MPG on a flat highway. I've got GM 6.2s, 6.5s, and Ford/IH 6.9s, 7.3 NAs, and a 7.3 IDI turbo. They all get pretty much the same mileage when being worked hard - but empty ??? My 85 Ford F250 ex-cab 4WD with 6.9 gets 11-12 MPG cruising a flat highway empty at 55 - 65 MPH - it doesn't seem to make sense. My 3/4 ton 4WD Suburban with 6.2 can get just about 20 MPG going the same speed and turning the same RPMs. It's geared the same as the 85 Ford and both have three-speed automatics. And, the Ford only had 65K miles on it, whereas my 6.2 Suburban has over 500,000 and never been apart (but it's eatin a lot of oil). I've got a friend with a fairly new Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD with the newer Japanese diesel Duramax, and he's very disappointed. It is setup exactly the same as his 92 Dodge with a Cummins. His new chevy gets 13-14 MPG empty on a flat highway, whereas his older Dodge gets a consistent 18 MPG. Also, the farmer next door to me has a brand new Dodge 3/4 ton 4WD Cummins HO engine, and he claims to get 22 MPG. I'm not saying I believe it yet, but it sounds like a good story.

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Bob

04-23-2006 11:05:39




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-23-2006 10:27:25  
What are you getting fot mileage now?

The likely range is from 8-10 MPG with a loaded, towing dually to a PEAK of about 18MPG, under ideal conditions, with a light 1/2 ton.

Link

Here's another good diesel site, but a lot of it is accessable to paid members only:

Link



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Tx Jim

04-23-2006 12:17:25




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Bob, 04-23-2006 11:05:39  
Bob,I'm getting 12.5/13 mpg's empty. It's a K2500,auto. tranny,4.10 gears. I had an '83 6.2 K2500,4 speed manual,4.10 gears that got 17 mpg empty. I'm trying to offset OVERPRICED fuel! Too bad farming doesn't make as much % NET PROFIT as Exxon/Mobil!!!!! !!!!! !!! Tx Jim



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Formerly PaMike

04-23-2006 14:13:09




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-23-2006 12:17:25  
I have a 98 6.5 K2500 with a 5 speed and 3.73. I get 18/19 MPG empty with 170K miles. I dont run it hard though. You should be getting better mileage than you are.



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Bob

04-23-2006 15:15:41




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 Re: OT: 6.5 Chevy better MPG's???? in reply to Formerly PaMike, 04-23-2006 14:13:09  
I don't think his mileage is too for off, with 4.10's and a slushbox, compared to your 3.73's and a crashbox 5-SPD OD.

These engines REALLY drop off in mileage over about 1700 to 1900 RPM's.



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Tx Jim

04-24-2006 06:32:28




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Bob, 04-23-2006 15:15:41  
Bob,with a lock-up torque convertor why should an auto tranny get less MPG's than a standard non-overdrive tranny everything else equal? I think I want to install a non-electronic Inj. pump like the pre '94 6.5 diesels. Tx Jim



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Bob

04-24-2006 07:37:20




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-24-2006 06:32:28  
Obviously, in the automatic, there is a hyraulic pump that needs to be powered to operate the clutches, and cool and lube the clutches and bearings. When you are driving in a certain gear, one or two multiple plate wet disc clutches are engaged, and several others are disengaged. In the clutches that are disengaged, the plates are a few thousandths of an inch apart, sliding past each other, with oil flowing between them for lube, all of which makes a certain amount of heat, also, and heat = wasted power.

If you question that, keep in mind 'most all automatics need oil coolers of one type or other, to reject this extra heat from the oil, while, generally, manual boxes need no oil coolers.

If you compare identical vehicles, one automatic, and one manual, I think there still is a measurable difference in fuel economy. While it is not as great as it was in the days before the 4 (or more) speed automatics, with locking convertors, never the less, it does exist.


As for the injection pump, the early 6.2's generally got pretty good mileage at light load. As time went by, and they screwed up the pump for more HP, and turbo'ed them, the slots in the cylinder head injector pre-cups were enlarged to accomodate the larger volume of fuel burning at each combustion stroke. It is the opinion of many that this change lowered light-load fuel economy.

As for going back to the mechanical pump, first off, you'd need a stand-alone controller to operate your electronically-shifted transmission. These cost $800 to $1500, unless you can find one someone is trying to unload.

I have had quite a few older units with the mech. pump. A neighbor had a 1993 2500 with a mech pump, and I have a 1994, with the electronic pump.

He bought his new, mine had about 54,000 miles on it. My '94 got AT least as many MPG's, and started better cold, and had more power, and was more responsive.

I can see NO reason to go back to the old mech pump. The electronic units initially gave some trouble. Most of those pumps have been swapped out for improved units. In addition, mounting the pump's electronic box, the FSD, on a remote heat sink will cure 'most all the remaining problems.

The electronic pump is able to maintain much closer control of desired injection timing, based on RPM's and load than the mech pump, which should be good for mileage.

There are a few "chips" in the market for these pumps. I don't know much about them. Perhaps SOMEONE is making a chip that will give slightly better light-load economy?

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Tx Jim

04-24-2006 09:42:45




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Bob, 04-24-2006 07:37:20  
Bob,the '83 6.2 K2500 granny 4 sp/no overdrive I had with 4.10 gears got as good of MPG pulling 12 rd bales of hay as my 2000 automatic empty and your telling me it's because hot oil in the tranny! Why would I need a stand alone controller for auto. tranny if I went to a mechanical inj. pump as I'm not trying to remove computer and yes I know tranny shifts electronically. I'm just trying to increase fuel mileage. Thanks, Jim

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Bob

04-24-2006 15:04:37




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-24-2006 09:42:45  
I DIDN'T say hot oil in the tranny costs you mileage!!!!!

I said fuel is WASTED heating up the oil in an automatic transmission to the degree that it must be continuously cooled.

Why would you need a stand-alone tranny controller?

Well, the your truck has ONE PCM (powertrain control module) computer to control BOTH the electronic IP AND the tranny, which will have a fit, and go into limp-home mode, if it isn't seeing and controlling the electronic IP, with it's associated sensors.

AFAIK, folks who have made the change to mech IP have wound up using a stand-alone tranny controller to make it work.

If you are insistant on butchering your truck, here's a guy (Bobby Martin) "in the know" as to how to do it:

Go to ebay and look up item #8057084984.

He says he can set you up with a "cheap & easy to install transmission computer".

Incidently, the guy pushing the book, in his own words, says you won't LOOSE over 1/2 MPG going from the electronic to the mech IP.

Good Luck!

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Tx Jim

04-25-2006 03:35:14




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Bob, 04-24-2006 15:04:37  
Bob,I'm not trying to butcher my truck,I only would like to get better mileage if possible. Jim



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Bob

04-25-2006 07:27:08




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-25-2006 03:35:14  
Have you checked the obvious... does the torque convertor "lock up"?

Have you had the injection timing and tdc offset checked by someone who knows what they are doing?

Does it have lots of miles... a worn/stretched timing chain can cut mileage.

Is the air filter and associated ducting clean and in good shape?

Is the turbo and it's wastegate control system in good operating condition? (You SHOULD be seeing a "service engine soon" light if it is not.

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jdemaris

04-24-2006 10:42:52




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 Re: will removing muffler help???? in reply to Tx Jim, 04-24-2006 09:42:45  
I don't believe there is any noticable loss in fuel mileage from power needed to run the automatic trans. Check the EPA ratings - although they're often hard to find for diesels. They might not represent all driving conditions, but they do work well comparing one vehicle to another. 1995 Chevy 3/4 ton 4WD truck - 6.5 diesel - rated at 16 city and 20 MPG highway with the automatic-overdrive, same truck with the five speed manual transmission 16 city and 19 highway. For older 6.2 trucks - 1984 3/4 ton 4WD truck - with automatic overdrive - 17 city and 21 MPG highway, and with four speed manual - 16 city and 18 MPG highway.

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