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Hydraulic-transmission oil

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Hurst

02-13-2006 17:23:32

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Is the stuff they sell at Walmart that meets the specs of the name brand fluids as good as the name brand stuff. I assume since it meets the specs it cannot hurt it as long as it is kept clean and the filters are kept clean. I am particularly talking about my 7000 allis. Last year I replaced the hydraulic/powershift/tranmission oil with the UTF from Sams club that met Agco powerfluid 815 specs. Will this hurt my tractor? I need straight answers, not a lot of assumptions and opinions. Thanks in advance

Hurst

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IanC

02-14-2006 19:55:17

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

I usually don"t butt in on these long threads but here is my two cents. When I was parts manager for a New Holland dealer we had a 1/2 day session with the head of Viscosity Oil, the OEM supplier to CNH and several others in the ag and construction industries. There are two basic "base stocks" for lubricants, parafinics, and napthinics (don"t ask me to explain the difference. When the engineers of a piece of equipment specify the compounds for seals, gaskets, adhesives, etc. they are spec"d for either of those base stocks chemistries. If you use napthinic oils in a unit designed for it all is well and good, the same with parafinics, where the trouble comes is when using the OTHER base stock which is when you get seal hardening, and delaminating of clutch packs etc.. Napthinic based base stocks are cheaper and those are in the oils made only to a price point. They will meet viscosity etc. but are NOT the same as the OEM specified oil. As I recall he said that to his knowledge NO OEM used napthinic based oil for their branded oil. We used to have at least one job per year where somebody had saved $5-$10 on a pail of oil and spent $thousands to repair the damage to their wet brakes and clutch packs.

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RodInNS

02-15-2006 07:04:37

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to IanC, 02-14-2006 19:55:17

I'm sure that's all good info that you provided there, except the price difference. I would say that before FL Viscosity happened on the scene, OEM oil was probably a few bucks more down to a few bucks less a pail, depending on the non OEM source. Since NH switched to FL Viscosity, oil has gone up, and up, and up, and up up up. And it wasn't all due to crude prices. It went up due to sourcing from FL Viscosity. The pricing difference for me, on my opeation in now about 1000-1500 per year spread between say Walmart and FL Viscosity. In the days when NH was smart, and sourced oil from Esso, it cost less. People were happy to use it. My dealer for one sold it on a very narrow margin to promote it's use. Now, he basically in good conscience can't sell it to anyone. It's there. He has it. You want it, here's the price. Even he knows the repairs are cheaper for most of us now. There are lots of people willing to gamble a bit.
To be honest, I don't know if the walmart stuff is napa based or para based.... but I suspect it's para, as I understand it to be recycled. FWIW,

Rod

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souNdguy

02-14-2006 12:00:53

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

I've been running TSC UTF in my Ford / NH products for years now... Almost half the price of the NH 134d stuff at the dealer.

I recently did my las toil change with the wallmart UTF oil.. Considering most of my tractors are hobby use, and will see only a handfull of hours per year.. I figure that 17$ per 5g vs 40$ per 5g on a service life that is listed for 600 hrs.. and I may put 20 on.. I figure it should be fine.. even if the oil wears out.. twice as fast.. etc. This makes a bigger difference since some of my tractors use 40 odd qts of utf.. each...

soundguy

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TomTX

02-14-2006 08:48:32

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

Don't know anything about your AC 7000. My way of thinking is this. My tractor has all trans/hydr/brakes/final planetaries/diff all together. The additive has to be good enough to support all these things, like the wet brakes. I have been told that a brake overhaul would be in excess of $1000. I run the best lubrication products I can find, not any Wally World junk. I think quality lube products is the best money you can spend. I see many of my tightwad friends saving pennies, then crying around the coffee shop about the high cost of "repairs". Just IMHO, Tom

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Kelly Campbell

02-14-2006 08:47:39

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

Try contacting your local oil/gas supplier, I know that here in kentucky, Kentucky Petrolium Supply carries it all, tranny oil, engine oil, Baldwin filters etc. There prices hands down are the best that I've been able to find.....worth a shot.

Kelly

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Hurst

02-14-2006 12:12:32

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Kelly Campbell, 02-14-2006 08:47:39

Kelly, we use them for the filters for our fuel pumps at our farm. I think it is the same place...in lexington right? I will keep that in mind, I quite a few buckets that I could steam out and use.

Hurst

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RodInNS

02-13-2006 18:38:29

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

From what little I understand I this subject, the TDH that Walmart sells up here in Canada is recycled oil. As per the bucket, it meets the spec of Ford/NH 134D, and several others, most of which I don't pay attention too. I only worry about the Ford spec. To me, that means that it meets the viscosity, pour points, flash points, antiwear, and friction modifier properties of the Ford spec. I got in a row with my dealer over this subject this past summer. He was peddeling some Irving oil at the time, which was not price competitive. So, he called Irving, and spoke with a triboligist, and posed your very question to him. His response entailed what I listed above. However, in addition, he stated that the Walmart oil was not of the same QUALITY. The premise was that the so called strength or durability of the additive package in the walmart oil was not up to Irving's standard, or likely Ford's, or Deere's or Esso's and so on. In short, it has a shorter service life. So, I flip a coin. It costs half as much to buy. It'll probably last better than half as long, but essentially, cost wise it's a wash in the long run. However, in my situation, I dump oil a lot more frequently than the 1200 hour interval that's recomended due to contamination anyway, along with constant leaks on loaders and so on.... so I never get the service life from the high cost oil. So I buy the cheap stuff. Either from Walmart or Canadian Tire. Crappy Tire is closer for me, so most comes from there..... So that's the low down on TDH, as given to me from the experts.

Rod

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Hurst

02-13-2006 19:02:43

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to RodInNS, 02-13-2006 18:38:29

So if I don't put enough hours on the tractor to even make the engine oil worth lasting (If I change it once a year, it only has maybe 3/4 of the hour life used), and I change the hydraulic oil every few years when water becomes a problem or something else I should be fine. I think is what you are saying is that the addatives won't take as much use as the higher price oil? That is kind of like buying expensive tires vs. cheap tires. The cheap ones may only last 2/3 to 3/4 of the hours, but are about 1/2-2/3 the price. They may have to be changed a little more, but if you lose one after only a couple hours of use, then you won't be out as much. So if I lost the fluid in my tractor after only a 100 hours, I would not be out as much as if I bought the expensive stuff, but if nothing happens, it breaks out to be about even once labor is factored and everything else. I figure if it meets the specs, it has to be able to last the time the fluid is called to be changed and when my 7000 was designed and builts, I bet half the packages they use in oil were not even being thought of, so if I keep the same brand oils it won't know the difference between wally world and say AGCO powerfluid 815. That is just my understanding...

Hurst

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RodInNS

02-13-2006 20:03:04

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 19:02:43

You got it. That's how it was put to me. Good luck.

Rod

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Hurst

02-14-2006 04:26:02

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to RodInNS, 02-13-2006 20:03:04

Thanks for the info Rod. I guess it sounds like the cheap stuff will do just fine in my old 7000. Like I said, I don't even get enough hours on the tractor to make the motor oil get all the hours it should, so this stuff will probably need changing for other reasons by the time that the packages start to go byebye. Thanks again for the explanation. By the way, for our "farming tractors" the ones that actually get used a lot, is there an aftermarket brand that is less expensive than say the NH 134 (all our farming tractors are ford) but still has the good packages? Thanks

Hurst

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al bane

02-13-2006 17:35:16

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

I bought some hydraulic-transmission oil from my local dealer and put it in my hydraulic units on my Farmall400 and my 300.It worked but was very sluggish and slow. I was advised to go buy Hy-Tran and I did. It seemed the Hy-Tran was thinner than the off brand oil. The hydraulics worked great in both tractors with Hy-Tran.

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Midwest redneck

02-13-2006 17:31:18

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Hurst, 02-13-2006 17:23:32

Who makes the oil? Does walmart make it--if they do then it is junk in my opinion. Buy oil from an oil company like Mobil, Chevron, Penzoil, Even wolfs head. You wouldnt go to a foot doctor to have brain surgery performed would you?

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marlowe

02-13-2006 18:20:34

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-13-2006 17:31:18

i sure hope you don't think that walmart makes there own oil ?? . john deere don't make there oil it's all outsourced . case -ih is all outsourced. walmarts quarts of oil is bottled by shell[look on the box]our fleetfarm oil is also shell

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Vacherie

02-13-2006 18:19:55

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-13-2006 17:31:18

Where is the Walmart refinery I did a search and could not find one in Louisiana, Texas, or Mississippi.

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Russ from MN

02-13-2006 18:16:06

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Re: Hydraulic-transmission oil in reply to Midwest redneck, 02-13-2006 17:31:18

I don"t think Wall-mart makes any thing except money, if the oil has a good rating then it should be fine. For example, Rotella is Rotella, wherever you buy it! Just my opinion!

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