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O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance

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Billy NY

03-25-2006 18:11:57




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Anyone have a neighbor who smokes out the area around your home ? Someone in my neighborhood is burning garbage, and smoking me out, I've noticed it for years now and must find a way to trace the smoke, they only do it at night.

I'm up on a hill, only one neighbor across the street, everyone else is a few hundred yards away. I was out there tonight enjoying a nice roaring, clean burning, dry elm fire after taking some dead elms down today, and I get smoked out by some inconsiderate person burning garbage, eyes and nose burning, I now have to go inside and it's a nice evening to be out! The elm burns real hot and clean, and here I am smelling plastic burning, I'm like wtf ??? It's got to be illegal and whatever it is must be highly toxic.

I'll speak to the nys police am friendly with, but there must be a way to nail these people, suggestions anyone ? I can see the smoke when I turn on the outside floodlights, air has been still all day, rarely happens, making this smoke really linger around longer. "I'm mad as hell and I am not going to take it any more !!! " LOL !!!

Yes, between this and the golf balls I find on the lawn and our fields nearby, people are damn annoying lately, someone is literally teeing off on their porch and landing them on our place because of the fields nearby, almost 2 dozen I've picked up. Went door to door up above me, to no avail, and to think where these people live now, I used to bale what was a 25 acre field at one time, liked the hay better even with all the work involved.

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cdmn

03-26-2006 21:24:25




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Remember, if you are up on a hill, your septic system drains into their drinking water. It's something like a social pecking order. All the fancy mansions are built on the heights, the poor folks live in the hollows.



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Billy NY

03-27-2006 05:59:03




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to cdmn, 03-26-2006 21:24:25  
Funny you mention that feature most homes have, but no, we own the hill down to the road, but along the road there are some older homeds which had sanitary lines that crossed our property, that eventually broke and started leaching their sewage onto our place, lines went straight to and drained into our wetland. That is until a trench was dug from from the road several hundred feet back to expose all these lines, then they all needed to install septic systems and stop dumping on our place. Board of Health, and ENCON, poured die down the drain to make sure no sewage was drained into the storm sewer or our wetland turned pond. Matter of a fact our system is a much larger capacity than required, with an extra large leach field, I'll bet the majority of what goes out the laterals is evaporated. The poor folk who live in the hollow also like to dump their lawn garbage on ours, one is making a living off the government and hiding it behind a carpet cleaning business, and gets the benefit of parking his vans that don't move very often on our lot. I dunno, but not the case here, the people on the hill have been accomodating I think LOL !!!

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davpal

03-26-2006 11:44:13




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
The problem with burn barrels is not that we use them but the fact the way waste is disposed of in this country in general. We are piling up millions of tons of burnable waste in dumps every year that should be incinerated and power generated instead of burning coal, oil and natural gas. It seems like our officials on the state and local and federal level are somehow not recognizing this valuable resource that is wasted every day. Every county, or two or three should have a centrally located incinerator-powerplant that runs 24-7 and generates power. They have very efficiant burners with exhaust scrubbing technology and catalytic converters that could produce a fairly clean exhaust plume while doing this very valuable service. The waste collection companies or individuals with trash could bring all their refuse to one central location and burn it there , including used motor oil. There is way to much waste in this country because we have so much extra to waste. I recycle all my cans, glass bottles, styrafoam, newspapers, magazines, plastic milk, soap bottles, and aluminum foil. It is very easy to take stuff to our local recycling center about once or twice a month. Then I burn all the stuff like paper towels, meat packaging, cereal boxes etc. My trash production has gone down 90 percent since I have started recycling. If people think that it would pollute the air it would do no more so than a coal fired power plant believe me. Every day at work I watch a cleaning company go through our auto parts plant and take a mountain of burnable garbage to a dumpster so it can get hauled to grangers and get buried. It blows me away. I heard one time the power it takes to make a glass bottle or a steel can you could power a normal house for 24 hours. This needs to happen in this country. Hard to believe that in a country of bright people we could have such an oversight. You could probably integrate a garbage incinerator plant with an ethenol plant and really start to make some sense. Instead we give all our money to Saudi Arabia for crude oil. Later people.

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Billy NY

03-27-2006 11:09:14




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to davpal, 03-26-2006 11:44:13  
I'll agree on the waste factor and the amount of what I call fluff that goes into landfills, that should be recyled or re-used. Look around at our construction sites, the waste is unreal, right after the ironworkers erect the steel, those ASTM 325 high strength bolts are everywhere,sometimes by the keg, they are'nt no pot metal either. It's obvious how much waste there is, even reusable items, architectural items, contents of peoples homes, I've seen apt.'s in NYC emptied right into a container, furniture,pictures even the deceased's college degrees, found a PHD in the container once. I have pulled some great stuff out of those containers, antiques etc., but the volume of materials that goes into landfills could be reduced. Was dumping off at a transfer station one day and a container came in from an office building, there was graph paper pads and other supplies that were new in the package, DuPont was the firm, I still have some of the pads, it's absolutely amazing, look at the money they make off of the items that get seized when you board a plane, there was a recent article on this, I did a research paper in college about landfills, I stumbled onto an article in a magazine, called "Garbage", a former college professor, with a PHD left the university to start a business from items he recycled out of landfills and anyplace else he could find re-usable, recylcable items, he carefully organized a yard to store and sell these items, many were architectural salvage, but regardless, he grossed over $600,000 his first year.

A landfill is a effective way to break down garbage, but it must have liners, leach collection system, monitoring wells, ventillation system etc., + all the other modern features, now could you imagine if everyone got on the same page, manufacturers, consumers, politicians, and really did something about it, it could make a big difference, too bad they just filled in ravines for landfills before the advent of liners,and modern technology, has ruined many water tables I know of locally. I don't see us ever getting on the same page to filter out and reduce the waste in this country. So many times I've been on jobsites and would love to grab things that can be gotten with permission or what have you, but have only taken what I could use, don't need a cluttered up place, have learned to part with clutter as best can be done, but I'll take scaffold sections when left behind and other items some contractor has written off all day long, you could make a living off the waste of a few big jobsites. It's a good topic, I've noticed waste for years too.

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Midwest redneck

03-26-2006 11:51:16




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to davpal, 03-26-2006 11:44:13  
I burn all cardboard in a 55 gallon drum, just to cut down on the garbage. But I agree with you that incinerators are needed, it is a shame to see landfills filling up with burnable waste.



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Stickler

03-26-2006 13:47:53




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Midwest redneck, 03-26-2006 11:51:16  
what's even more of a shame is the amount of purposely disposable products that are on the market today, that cannot be repaired or ore not economical to repair. Like for example a toaster. My parents had the same toaster for 50 years. I had gone through probably 20 cheap crap non-repairable ones in 20 years. When dad died, mom gave me that old toaster. Now, in 10 years, she's gone through 10 cheap crap toasters and I've yet to have to open the old one up other than to clean it. The landfills are full of junk like the new once a year toasters, cell phones, computers, etc. Or even major appliances. Notice you never see any really old ones at the dump? That's because they're all still running fine and refuse to die. I've also got a deep freeze and a fridge, International Harvester bought new by my parents circa 1950, that are still working perfectly without a single repair other than door gaskets. New ones it seems never seem to last much past the warranty period before needing repairs. And here's another observation of mine. Anything made of plastic or with a plastic housing, its life expectancy is exactly equal to its warranty period, because the cost to replace the plastic part if it's even available will exceed the cost of a new replacement.

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Billy NY

03-26-2006 08:22:16




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Do appreciate the feedback, I know it's one of those things like politics or religion, but what I find is some people among a lot of us that are not, can be really inconsiderate and do things without half a thought as to how it affects someone else. I was a bit annoyed at the fact that I am forced into my home, part of which my mother contaminates with cigarette smoke, which means I am smoked out. She'll never stop and after a few health related incidents in the last 2 years it's the easiest way for me to keep an eye on her, she's had a tough time, being the only kid, it's the right thing to do, looks the the 40 year old who never left home though LOL ! I keep my area smoke free and do not spend a lot of time here when the weather is mild, used to only be weekends when working away for many years, but now since I've been here, it's just those 3 tough months of winter, fortunately the place is large, has a nice shop garage area to work in, but it's a fair amount of work to keep it looking nice, like most places, upkeep does need to be done regularly. It seems since I'm back, all the little things people have done to encroach on our place, are getting exposed and mitigated, my neighbor moved right onto our property, made a lawn etc., he's got a 55 x 200 lot with a home and a garage, all kinds of vehicles, atv's and a business that really is a cover, he fosters kids, he's tryin to put 10lbs of shite in a 5lb. bag and make his problems ours, I've been nice, and allowed him some room, I've lived in some tight quarters too, but also told him the yellow thing with tracks will scrape that lawn off in one pass if he ever tried squatters rights to the propertym, the line was re-established as well. People will try and test you, if you are not around for awhile especially.

Being a person who likes to do a job right, gets involved with the details of things, thinks things out as best can be done, I have a hard time dealing with people who haphazardly do things like burn trash, in a smoldering manner, when they know there are other people in the vicinity. There are toxins to consider and it's just not right in certain places, like here. A clean burning fire is one thing, but being a slob about it is another.

I know how it is in the rural areas, which are not far from here, you can do many things the way you want, no one to bother with it, be it burning garbage or whatever it may be. We can still do most things here, within reason. Get this, I can rifle hunt deer at my place, but go up to the northern end of the catskills, that is part of Albany County have to use a shotgun and some areas there are quite rural, but because it's part of the county the city is in, no rifle allowed. A good friend lives over there and he comes here to hunt often. Along the state road here, there are homes that have been here almost as long as the farms, some newer ones, newer ones are spread out and 90% of the farm land is still intact, but subject to 6-7 massive developments now, up for vote by the town. Years ago we used to get blamed for flies at the dairy bar diner across the street, owned by a long time tradtional dairy farming family, typical complaint from a farm, although the horse manure was never an odor issue, for the most part everyone got along with the dairy farmers, most were friendly to their neighbors, it has not changed that much, it was a farming community for a long long time. We used to sell Ford tractors in the town, one of which is still in service, everyone knew each other, not much different from the rural areas, where I have lived as well.

When I burn, I normally burn paper, cardboard but not plastic refuse, it goes in the recycle bin and it's a monthly fee but so what, it's not going to break the bank, so 1 large can gets picked up every week and the recycled plastics 2 times a month. Pick up here is plenty affordable, other places it may not, my grandparents place on the mountain was where most burned their garbage. Years ago the NYS police burned the trash from the barracks right on the edge of the parking lot, right next to us.

I've discovered the incinerator in the can too, use bottomless 55 gallon drum, with a few holes punched in the bottom, and chocked up for air flow, on granite blocks that don't crumble so fast under the heat. When that air gets sucked in, when the wind is right it roars like a jet engine. There have been occasions where I could not recycle or re-use things, like empty oil containers, so I get a hot fire going in the barrel, toss one in at a time, they are gone in an instant and if you watch the smoke, it's minimal, still crosses a grain to do this, but with a hot fire fed by oxygen and not putting in too much at a time, it's hardly visible, it's when someone lets one smolder and smoke that is so annoying. I don't mind gathering up some wood to make a hot fire, if I have to burn something I normally would not, the barrel set up as described does a great job, but you can't overload it. Was a bit annoyed, better to cuss and discuss then to get angry, that always leads to trouble, I think I'll be checking backyards, see if I can find the person, if not I'll go the official encon, fire dept. state police route and see what I can do, when the outside of the house is smoke out, and my eyes burn, I've had enough, it's been goin on awhile.

Golf balls, I'll keep pickin them up, why not, still want to find the jerk teeing off, there's a golf course in town, but he thinks our acreage is the driving range.

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Weldon

03-26-2006 18:51:17




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-26-2006 08:22:16  
To quote you..... "It seems since I'm back, all the little things people have done to encroach on our place, are getting exposed and mitigated, my neighbor moved right onto our property, made a lawn etc., he's got a 55 x 200 lot with a home and a garage, all kinds of vehicles, atv's and a business that really is a cover, he fosters kids, he's tryin to put 10lbs of shite in a 5lb. bag and make his problems ours, I've been nice, and allowed him some room, I've lived in some tight quarters too, but also told him the yellow thing with tracks will scrape that lawn off in one pass if he ever tried squatters rights to the propertym, the line was re-established as well. People will try and test you, if you are not around for awhile especially."

Do you mean that this guy is using YOUR property for his lawn ? And you are not doing anything about it?

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Billy NY

03-27-2006 06:46:41




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Weldon, 03-26-2006 18:51:17  
Yes, he did help himself to more than is owned by their deed, but I've done the research and made sure I did everything legally to insure he could never lay claim to one square inch of ours, the documents, witnesse;s ( former owner of his house would testify ) and historical photos alone, would be very hard to contest, and the fact that we've been here 30 years prior to them, and nothing has changed, our map is clear and there are survey reference points showing the property line that are maintained and still in-tact. The property is posted at each line. We've been neighborly, otherwise he'd be completely thrown off, and the lot is going to most likely be developed soon. NYS is trying to pass a bill to change the century old laws that some people have used to steal property. He took the liberty of cleaning the area close to his line and improving it, while I was working away, also making some use out of it with the extra room, but he's been informed several times and put on written notice, I had him sign off on a copy of his deed agreeing with the size of his lot and he can be directed to leave ours at anytime. I made sure to nail the coffin shut on that, but also allowed him some priviliges while the place is idle. I have been active on the lot, and once a year I also verbally remind him of the facts, he's always agreed to the terms, I have tossed him off 2 times already, after getting ticked off, I cut the grass now, but have allowed him to park there as a favor, by permission only.

If an owner abandons a place for 10 years and meeting certain criteria, a sly person can still get title to a tract of land that he did not purchase, its a real lowlife thing to do and I've had this discussion many times with my neighbor. I told him, I'm not so sure I'll abide by any laws if you or the real owner which is his wife and another sibling tries to take 1" of ours, he also knows I'm not the most secured cannon on the deck, but no need to go there, getting older and wiser helps staying rational here. I think they've gotten the point clearly by now and with the documentation in hand, I'm not worried, and I have been helpful to all of my neighbors here actually.

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Jim1206

03-26-2006 06:53:38




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
In NY you can burn anything on a residential property except for food waste. That includes up to 4 tires etc as long as it was generated on your own property and no commercial use. some villages and towns may have stricter regs but that is state law. I know this as I have been a Fire Chief for 15 years and have had the same problem with my neighbors . NYS DEC is usually not much help and don't want to be bothered. Best thing to do is call the FD and tell them it is creating a breathing difficulty with the smoke, they will put it out, but is only a temporary solution.

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kestrel

03-26-2006 07:14:09




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Jim1206, 03-26-2006 06:53:38  
Jim,
NYS state open burnng regulations can get very complicated, depending on town populations, etc.. We gave out many warnings in southeastern NY for residential burning when we could have written tickets. I recall in towns over 20,000 no burning was legal, except lawn and leaf debris.
You're right, the local FD may be the best fix. Residential burning may not be a priority with DEC. but all depends on the work load of the local ECO. I know-I was one for 25 yrs.
Kestrel

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A comment

03-26-2006 05:01:42




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
It's still legal to burn trash where we live and I do. Only have to go to the dump once a year (about $20). It makes a difference _HOW_ trash is burned. A slow smoky smoldering fire is a bigger nuisance than a fast burning one. I use a 55 gallon barrel with both ends cut out, and a brick under the upwind side. It gets a good draft and doesn't smoke much. Also wait for days when the wind is away from the neighbor's and toward an open field.

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George G

03-26-2006 04:51:44




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Looks like one of those cases where,"I shood be able to burn my garbage, But, they can't burn theirs." What smells good to me, shood smell good to everone. The fact is, you can't burn anything in an open fire in NY, without getting the OK from the local fire dept. first.



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farmermatt

03-26-2006 03:44:42




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Wow, I didnt really expect all these comments agreeing with you after reading your post. I dont burn trash very regularly but would if I had to pay for the dumpster I put it in. Over $50 a month for the dumpster is not in my budget, I have bigger priorities for my money. Sounds surprising to have the long time "country" resident complaining about the "newcommers" annoying him with their stench. I guess if it against the law you maybe should call the authorites or whatever. Glad I still live in a "free" (for the most part) country. If not against the law, guess theres nothing you can do about it. Personally I wouldnt let myself be bothered by something "trivial" like that, but I must have too much to worry about or something. Matt

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Hugh MacKay

03-26-2006 01:45:26




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Billy: You have good advice on the burning, especially from NY guys knowing the rules you must live by.

On the golf balls, if you have or know an enterprising young lad, give him the rights to all golf balls on your property, encourage your neighbors to do the same. Give the kid a site to sell golf balls roadside on route to the golf course. Many kids make a good living that way. I had one dad tell me his son actually exceeded dad's construction work income some weeks during the summer.

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RAB

03-25-2006 23:42:42




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
A couple of things. Burning many plastics produces dioxins - the most carcinogenic group of compounds known. Try checking which way the wind is blowing (or air is moving) - that might just give a clue as to where it is coming from, or who it is not coming from.
RAB



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Mark - IN.

03-25-2006 19:39:49




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
No, kind"ve live pretty far out for that.

I don"t burn trash, but burn along fence lines and stuff like brush. Some lady wrote into the paper saying that the county needs to ban stuff like that...not trash burning persay, but all other burning. Would imagine along fence lines, grills, everything.

As a kid, me and my buddies caught a skunk in a box trap once. We were trying to catch a badger out in the field. Probably better that we caught the skunk, I guess. Anyway, he died during surgery on the picnic table while we were trying to de-skunk him to make him a pet. Was pretty bad smell, so we tossed him into the burn barrel (again, he was dead at that point) and tried to burn him. He smoldered a couple of days and everyone within miles was calling the parents threatening to "kill them boys" again. Just one of the many reasons my parents had gray hair by the time I was 5. So, I guess that I can sympathize with you.

Mark

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Kestrel

03-25-2006 19:38:13




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Billy,

Give your local N.Y.S.ENCON Officer a call. Open burning of garbage is a misdemeanor under NYS Law, minimum $200 fine. Exceptions are for agricultural debris only. There's a good chance your complaint might tie in with other complaints in the area if the odor is that pervasive.

As for the golf balls, keep 'em. If Top-Flite or Titlelist, they might be worth a few bucks at the local golf shop.

Kestrel in CT.

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Davis In SC

03-25-2006 19:29:57




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Wood or leaves are one thing, but burning trash & plastic is nasty-smelling. Even though it is not legal here, lots of folks still do it. Really no excuse, anymore... Trash pick-up is only $12.00 a month, & there are free county dunp sites all over, one is right down the road. There are some Vietnamese down the road that burn a fire almost every night, they sit out around it all night, winter or summer. Half the time it smells like thay are burning garbage.

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Thack

03-25-2006 18:50:37




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
Call the fire department and report a rubbish fire that is irritating your eyes and lungs.



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OHhillbilly

03-25-2006 18:32:36




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Billy NY, 03-25-2006 18:11:57  
They may be burning trash to cover up the smell of a meth lab. We had this happening at a neighbor's house not too long ago.

At any rate, I think it's safe to say that anyone who still burns trash on a regular basis is either a redneck or a meth chemist. (No offense to the rednecks out there!)



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Dachshund

03-25-2006 20:15:32




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to OHhillbilly, 03-25-2006 18:32:36  
Well - I ain't neither! I burn trash! I live 2.5 miles out of town, and there IS garbage service (of sorts) that collects on Mondays. I'm not willing to pay the $20+ to them and STILL have to haul my garbage 3/4 mile up to the highway. I don't have CLOSE neighbors, and it is perfectly legal here, anyway. Only thing is that you have toburn dawn to dusk, not at night.



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Stickler

03-26-2006 05:32:44




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Dachshund, 03-25-2006 20:15:32  
It's still legal here too. There is NO garbage pickup, and the dump is 15 miles away and only open one day a week. I work 450 miles away, an am only home on dump day every 3rd or 4th week. In the winter I just save it up and take a grain truck load at a time, but in the summer it stinks too bad to save like that. We compost everything the chickens won't eat, and burn the rest. Nearest neighbour is 4 miles away. We all burn garbage there in the summer.

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Dachshund

03-26-2006 06:09:08




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Stickler, 03-26-2006 05:32:44  
We don't have a dump! There is a "Transfer Staion" about 40 miles away and another county has a dump about 40 miles away, so we either have to get the overpriced pickup service, haul it 40 miles,or burn. I usually get all the metal out beforehand and bury or spread the ashes.



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Bill in TN

03-26-2006 05:46:31




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Stickler, 03-26-2006 05:32:44  
LIBERTY



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Mark - IN.

03-26-2006 08:30:38




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 Re: O.T. Garbage Burning Nuisance in reply to Bill in TN, 03-26-2006 05:46:31  
Absolutely.

Just a month ago, I believe it was, my county did enact a noise ordinance, but says it doesn't apply to AG, so I'm ok for...now. Otherwise, if someone's neighbors find chainsaws, mowers, leaf blowers, and...you name it offensive, they call the county and they send out a deputy to write a several hundred dollar ticket. Again, they say it don't apply to AG, but the first time that someone that moved out from the city into some new subdivision that used to be a farm field the season before and don't want to hear a tractor or combine out in the field at 10 or 11PM...we'll see. And the next ordinance after that will probably be about the dust raised by tilling got onto the BMW or the smell of hogs, cattle, silos, and...ruined the 4th of July party. I'm still several miles out...for now.

Mark

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