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How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales

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Marksd

03-24-2006 17:20:07




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How many HP do you need for bailing square bales of hay? I know a live PTO is preferred but about how much tractor HP can you get by with? Also why do they rate HP on drawbar vs PTO? Why the 2 different numbers?

Thanks
Mark




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Marksd

03-25-2006 16:38:27




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
John, where can you get an overrun clutch for the PTO. Any farm store? What do they cost and what do they do? Thanks



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TimV

03-26-2006 06:12:10




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-25-2006 16:38:27  
Mark: Actually, you probably don"t need an overrunning clutch, as many (in fact, most) balers already have one. An ORC is typically a small additional section of shaft that attaches to your PTO stub, and from there to the PTO shaft of your implement. It is designed so that power is transferred from the tractor to the implement, but not from the implement to the tractor. This is necessary when the implement is one that stores energy (such as bushhog with large, heavy spinning blades) and would then release that energy as it "wound down" after the clutch was pushed in. Unfortunately, with many older tractors, pushing in the clutch does not decouple the PTO from the transmission gear train (though it will decouple it from the engine) and so the momentum stored in the spinning blades would continue to push the tractor forward with no way for the operator to stop it. On most balers, there is an ORC built into the flywheel, so one is typically not needed at the PTO. If you have a chance to watch a baler being run, have someone push in the clutch of the tractor (or otherwise stop the PTO) and you"ll hear a "click-click-click" from the flywheel. This is the ORC, which is preventing the flywheel from pushing the tractor. Should your baler not be so equipped, any farm store (TSC, Farm & Fleet, or any tractor dealership regardless of color) should have PTO-mounted ones for under $50.00.

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John S-B

03-25-2006 11:33:23




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
Mike that M ought to do fine. Just use a overrunning clutch on the pto. I use an M with a JD 24T on a small field.



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Mike M

03-25-2006 09:41:23




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
I would think HP isn't the issue as much as a tractor big and heavy enough to drag the baler and wagon up and down hills and be able to stop too. Level ground should not pose a problem,but throw some hills in the mix and it gets unsafe fast !



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Dachshund

03-25-2006 06:22:15




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
Dad baled 1000's of bales with an IHC 46 behind a Farmall H. Didn't pull a hay rack, but our place is all hills. Neighbor a few miles down the road pulls a NH 273 with an 8N - been doing it for several years without problems. Several guys out there with Ford Jubilee's.



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Jonfarmer

03-24-2006 19:14:42




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
If your talking about the old balers made back in the day, those require vey little power and can be used with nearly anything, like the John Deere 14T, but if your talking about a new moderen baler, some of those require as much s 75hp.



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Marksd

03-24-2006 19:10:59




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
Thanks for all the replies. I currently have a Farmall M and will most likely put up some hay this year with it. Lack of Live PTo some kind a pain but still can be done. I was curious about HP because we have been looking around at some other tractors and looking up the HP of them. Lots of them in the 30's for HP. Some in the 40's. I know there is a farmall 300 and a 400 coming up next week in a local sale so I thought I might watch them. Also a local guy had a Allis WD45. He said it was 45HP but from what I can find it is in the mid 30's. One thing I also seem to notice it that the Nebraska test seem to get higher HP data compared to the actual data from the orig. tractor info.

Thanks again for all your help. If anyone knows about a 215 JD swather please post info in the other forum for that.

Mark

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paul

03-24-2006 20:34:21




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 19:10:59  
The M should have enough power to make up for the lack of live pto to some extent.

An IHC 300 has been pulling a NH 270 baler & a rack around these hills for over 4 decades, the torq amplifier is a sweet deal, 10 speed & live pto makes it so nice.

--->Paul



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Marksd

03-24-2006 19:11:09




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
Thanks for all the replies. I currently have a Farmall M and will most likely put up some hay this year with it. Lack of Live PTo some kind a pain but still can be done. I was curious about HP because we have been looking around at some other tractors and looking up the HP of them. Lots of them in the 30's for HP. Some in the 40's. I know there is a farmall 300 and a 400 coming up next week in a local sale so I thought I might watch them. Also a local guy had a Allis WD45. He said it was 45HP but from what I can find it is in the mid 30's. One thing I also seem to notice it that the Nebraska test seem to get higher HP data compared to the actual data from the orig. tractor info.

Thanks again for all your help. If anyone knows about a 215 JD swather please post info in the other forum for that.

Mark

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old

03-24-2006 18:48:13




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
Figure it this way, a baler will pull about 10-15 HP. then what ever is left is what you have for pulling it. You can bale with say an 8N but it works the tractor to death, same with an H farmall, or B JD. All of them will do it but work very hard when doing so. The live PTO is nice because if you hit a heavy spot of hay you can stop moveing and let the baler catch up. I've baled useing both a Ford 841, 45HP and an Oliver 77 38HP but the Oliver did a better job because of the live PTO and the higher toqure of the 6 cylinder engine.

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Steven@AZ

03-24-2006 18:37:48




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
My Dad did lots of custom baling back in the day with his H and a 369 New Holland square baler. He said it was a little tough on the governor, but it could handle it just fine.



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TimV

03-24-2006 18:23:25




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
We ran a New Holland 311 for years with a IH 300--roughly 35 HP. Of course that"s at the low end of what you want, but with a modest-sized baler you can easily get by with a tractor of less than 50 HP on flat ground. Things like having a kicker, pulling up (and down, due to less weight and braking power) hills, wet or muddy ground, etc. will raise your requirements. In response to your other question, tractors historically have been rated for both a "PTO" (or "belt" in the days when most tractors had a belt pulley) and a "drawbar" horsepower. The PTO horsepower number will always be higher. This is a reflection of the additional horsepower it takes to run the transmission and final drives, resulting in less horsepower available at the drawbar for pulling loads or plowing.

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730virgil

03-24-2006 18:06:16




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
last full time farm job i had we used john deere 3020 pulling john deere 336 baler and wagon



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the smallest tractor you

03-24-2006 17:49:45




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
:)



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RayP(MI)

03-24-2006 17:33:16




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 Re: How many HP for bailing hay? Square Bales in reply to Marksd, 03-24-2006 17:20:07  
Suprisingly, the power requirement for most square balers isn't that great. I run a NH 278 Hayliner, and an Oliver T60 with a JD B, and a Farmall 200. Don't have the HP figures at hand, but am sure they are less than 25 as they're presently running. (Oh, and yes, we pull a wagon behind the baler, on some uneven land.) Can be done without live PTO, if you're careful to start baler with no load, and don't cram the hay to it.

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