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Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel dri

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rboulware

03-23-2006 10:43:15

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Now SEE!!! this is an OVER WHEELMING response of YES!! YES!! YES!! to 4 wheel drive!! In the last thread

So now I am back to the drawing board. I thought for the past two months or so, I had narrowed my search down to a couple of trators and I though I would supprise everyone with what I bought. But Now, all that just blew out the window. I NOW need to start my research all OVER again now looking for 4 wheel drive machines. The only ones I know to start with are the good ol John Deere 7020 and 7520 articulaids any body want to comment?

What in your opinion, is the BEST 4 wheel drive machines out there. Reliability being the most important thing..

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davpal

03-23-2006 22:53:24

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

If you are going to do some heavy field work you can use the articulated tractors pretty well. You can also buy just about any model you want that was built in the 70's or 80's for under ten grand. You could spend a great deal on repairs though so expect some problems to be on a tractor that is under ten grand. They usually have a filthy cab and lots of oil and leaks to tend to and they are huge so they do require a place to store them. The implements for them can be bought fairly reasonable too. Chistle plows, moldboard plows, disks, field cultivators are all very good prices used. These tractors are capable of unreal tasks in the field. If you get a chance just go out and drive one someday and you will either come away amazed or totally convinced you don't need one. They are truly the behemoths of the tractor world. I find people are way to brand loyal when it comes to their toys. People tend to drive what they know whether it is the best or not. Snowmobiles, quads,tractors, pickups, racecars, they argue about who has the best. I have a white 4-150 and it works ok for me. I know people say watch out for the 3208 but it works for me and I like it. Very powerful and uses about 6.5 gallons per hour under load. I bought it because I wanted the smallest articulated tractor I could buy and it was the one. It still feels huge in the field though but it can turn in a very short circle and seems to pull a lot through some pretty greasy and bad conditions sometimes. The pics of it are posted on this site out doing field work in michigan. I bought one without duals too because on a 30 year old tractor you can get some pretty crappy tires and I didn't think a tractor the size of the 4-150 (about 16,000 pounds) needed duals. I have the super singles and they do pretty good so far. If you have never driven an articulated backing them up is an art too. They are pretty much doing exactly the opposite of what your brain is telling you. Once you have them at the implement though they are easy to get a hitch pin in because they pivot. Old articulated ones usually have a little loose center pivot too so it will be pretty clunky on really uneven ground. I guess the only thing I have learned is big tractors can be big repairs and small tractors have smaller repairs! Good luck and have fun with whatever you run. Later.

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paul

03-23-2006 22:47:01

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Guess no one ever farmed tougher land before 1980 or so, no one had a loader either before then....

I load manure from 40 cattle every summer with a narrow front IHC H tractor, no live hyd pump. It ain't the greatest loader tractor ever - heck it is terrible, but it gets the manure out. No power steering either. But it's loaded manure on this farm since the late '40s, and probably has a few more years left in it.

Don't have a clue any more what you want, what you need, or what is just a dream. Like someone said, pick a horse & ride it. Way too much yo-yo stuff here. Pick something, and use it. If it ain't right, then trade it on something else. But you can make any of them work out for you, you don't _need_ 4wd. Thought money was an issue before, now you are up to $20,000 or so for something nice with extra bells & whistles.

Yikes. :)

--->Paul

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2x4

03-23-2006 21:43:12

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

you want a New Holland TV140. Its perfect for you in every way

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farmerboy

03-23-2006 19:37:23

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

rboulware -

you need to pick a horse and ride it, You've gone from 80-120 HP row crop machines to mammoth 4WD articulted behemoth lawn ornaments and back again.

It seems you're generalizing all 4wd tractors in one category. They fit in at least two categories. 4wd articulated or crab steer and row crop MFWD (stands for Mechanical Front Wheel Drive, not Massey Fergusen)

A 4wd articulated serves absolutely no purpose other than pulling and pushing. They have no value beyond pulling or pushing. they come in three styles - clumsy, clumsier, and ridiculously clumsy. You wanna mow? forget it. You wanna back a hay rack into the shed? no way. You wanna put it under roof? Better build big. Wanna fuel it? Get out the checkbook. The new Deere 9000 series has a 300 gallon fuel tank. That's over 600 bucks to fuel it once. Wanna fix it? Mortgage the farm. A 7520, fully ballasted wieghs 22000 lbs, not 8000. A 4020 with full ballast is 13K.

4WD RC(row crop) tractors are very handy. They are also very pricey. If you want a row crop MFWD tractor the size of a 7520, you're looking at a 4655. A 4655 is 15 years old and still commands a 40K+ price tag around here. Before the 50 series, Deere did not offer an acceptable FWA(Front Wheel Assist) tractor.

I'm not sure in all the posts you've written if you've CLEARLY put down your needs but a 4010 or 4020 is about the most useful machine under 12K out there. Parts are plentiful, dealerships are everywhere, everyone knows how to fix 'em, they have plenty of power, great reliability, easy to operate, lots of equipment tailored to them is out there cheap... The list goes one and on.

I'm sorry if this comes out harsher than it was intended but you've gotta buy something soon.

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RodInNS

03-23-2006 19:22:32

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

I think I would look at what work I need to do, and then find an appropriate tractor for the job. If you're doing mostly dry work, like making hay, and a lot of PTO work..... then you can probably get by fine with a 2 wheel drive. They can plow and disk just fine too. The biggest gain with Front Wheel Assist is that they can do most of the same work better. They are indespensible for loader work. If you're into heavy pulling where you can use the extra traction, or are working in limited traction conditions, then FWA will probably gain you up to 20% savings in fuel, and probably let a 70 HP tractor do the work of an 85 HP 2 wheel drive in some situations.
A large articulated 4WD is a whole different ball game. If you were doing a lot of heavy tillage work or simply needed big brute power to drag something, then that's your ticket. For anything else.... that tractor might just be a big expensive liability. I would also consider the cost. FWA tractors are a good deal more versatile, and more in demand..... and more expensive. If you don't really need that kind of traction, then mabey that 1100 Massey will give you a big bang for your buck. Those big old 2 wheel drives can be had pretty cheap, and in good working order. If I was buying new, it would be with FWA, not even a thought otherwise. But, an old pelter, for a certain job... I wouldn't care if it did what I wanted..... I think it's important to size and spec a tractor to what you need. The wrong one will cost you far more than than any savings you might get from a good deal.

Rod

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farmerboy

03-23-2006 19:43:28

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to RodInNS, 03-23-2006 19:22:32

We were writing at the same time and said the same thing. I'd'a just said "ditto" had you posted yours first...

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rboulware

03-23-2006 19:41:13

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to RodInNS, 03-23-2006 19:22:32

I wish I could post pictures of my land....My land is some what slopeing it some role to it. It was once timber land that was cut over about 6 years ago. Most of the debree left over from the timber is about gone, either from the previous owner burning or just plain ol detiration. So what stupms are left I am CERTAIN that a harro would bust them up. Here is the thing, being that it was ONCE forest land, and now open land. I have alot of small ruts and gullies that could possibly cause a machine to turn over or get stuck. Like I said I had a JD 5020 about a year ago that I sould have NEVER let go of but I did. Dang good machine, any way I got it stuck one time and had to pay a man $100.00 to pull me out.

Pictureing my land now, and seeing what everyone else is using I need 4 wheel drive. If not I could have already had a JD 4020 and been done.

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RodInNS

03-24-2006 09:48:18

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 19:41:13

Now I think you need a dozer. Dunno. If you are sure that an offset will break the stumps down, then probably a good 150 hp 2 wheel drive with duals, or even mabey a 100hp FWA will drag a 9-10' Rome disc around. You're not going to be going fast anyway, so ballast up, tire up, and use the gears. That said, I've not personally seen too many stumps that I would try to wrangle a disc over in 6 years. Up here, that's dozer or excavator work, and prime material to pile and burn. Use your discretion on that. HTH.

Rod

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farmerboy

03-24-2006 06:16:41

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 19:41:13

It's been said "Just because you can doesn't mean you should."

It's also been said "Four wheel drive just gets you in farther before you get stuck."

In my 15 odd years of driving tractor, I have never seen our 4020 stuck. Our 1086 MFWD and 4640 has been stuck numerous times. It's mostly because we send them in to jobs where they're more likely to get stuck. In the second week of ownership, I buried the 4840 to its axles. Dad wanted manure tankered. I told him I'd get stuck. He told me to do it anyway...that's another story

Here's another angle - if you do manage to get the 7520 stuck, ain't nobody but another mammoth 4wd or a wrecker gonna be able to pull you out. They aren't cheap. Buddy's neighbors bought a massive Ford tractor. They were showing to off, bragging how they'd never get stuck again. Next week, they got stuck in the middle of a peat field. NO ONE in the neighborhood had anything near big enough to pull them out. They called the wrecker and paid the man a grand.

In the end it's your money.

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Leland

03-23-2006 18:21:48

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Check this guy out he has what you need a white 4-150 helnzr@aol.com

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ricedaddy

03-23-2006 16:15:57

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

one comment, read what Don Wadge said, oops one more stay away from the cat 3208

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Michael D.

03-23-2006 16:09:31

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Have you considered a caterpillar of some type? If I recall what you were planning on doing I contemplated on saying anything. If your worried about working on side hills, clearing, and breaking groung for the first time for crops you may be better off. They have power, stability, and a wide range of options to do what you need to do.

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rboulware

03-23-2006 17:06:45

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to Michael D., 03-23-2006 16:09:31

I have considered a big cat, but here is the problem $$$$$$$$ and lots of it. I was looking at a Cat 977L or even a 955L. But when they break....OOOOO Hhhh BOY..... ..Much worse than a JD 7520 I supose..

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BigMarv1085

03-23-2006 15:39:43

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

I had a stieger cougar. Very simple tractor to work on and parts could be bought most anywhere. It had dana axles, cat 3208 engine and fuller transmisson. Pulled a miller 24 foot harrow. Way to big for what we did.

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rboulware

03-23-2006 17:08:11

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to BigMarv1085, 03-23-2006 15:39:43

I have not considered stieger before, but I just might...

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Dave from MN

03-23-2006 13:56:02

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Unless yer gonna run large agreage with big immplement, I would get a good 70-100 HP tractor with MFWD. Throw a set of duals on the front and the back when you really need the traction ( what maybe 3-4 weeks of the year) and then you have the versitility of a normal tractor. The articulates can be quite pricey to repair from the people that I know that have them, a recent rebuild on a CaseIH tranny in a 9230 was OVER $10,000. It is amazing how much nicer a rowcrop special articulate is for planting and moldboard plowing. I would also say a massey will be your best bet $/HP wise, but I still say get a MFWD.

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rboulware

03-23-2006 17:16:36

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to Dave from MN, 03-23-2006 13:56:02

Yeah....I was not sure on the old articulades. The biggest fear IS the cost of fixing one of these. But you say stay with MF but you did not say what model to stay with. The 399 seem a bit high as well. The best price I seem to have been quoted is $11,500.00 and it has about 5100 hours on it. I am just not sure really any more. I am CONVINCED that I do need 4 wheel drive, but I don't know what to get. I was SOOOOO set on a 4020 or a massey 1100, but now that is totally BLOWN out of the water.

From what littel I have seen Oliver 1850 with the Perkins motor has a 4x4 but they are Rare. The Massey Ferguson has a 399 that is 4 wheel drive. Then White has a few like the 2-75 but that is ACTUALLY an Iseki tractor Iseki T9000 to be exact. The cost seem's to be much higher as well. So I don't know WHAT to do...

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rboulware

03-23-2006 13:06:47

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

well one of the machines I'm looking at is a MF399 4 wheel drive.

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Jonfarmer

03-23-2006 16:44:35

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 13:06:47

Whoa, there is an awful lot of difference between a John Deere 7520 articualtor and a Massey Furgueson 399 with MFWD. You need to take a good look at your true needs. Unless you have atleast 500 acres to take care of, an articulator is not for you, as those are made for pulling the biggest of impliments in large open fields. What are you looking to do?.

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03-23-2006 12:29:11

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Guess I will chime in on this one, be carefull about looking at 4WD tractors like a 7020 or 7520. Make sure that it will suit your needs. Lot of pulling power but very large, awkward, and expensive to maintain. Used for heavy tillage. If this is what you plan on doing, then this will fit the bill. Make sure to find the right tractor for the right job.

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rboulware

03-23-2006 13:23:47

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to MH, 03-23-2006 12:29:11

They are afull BIG aren't they I reall would like something under 8,000 lbs

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Don Wadge

03-23-2006 12:27:50

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

If you want an older true 4WD go with a Versatile or Steiger. I know a little more about Versatile than I do Steiger but both are component built tractors. These are the guys that showed everyone else how to build true 4WD's. I'm not so familiar with Steiger as I am Versatile. On a Versatile you can remove any component (engine, transmission,axles, etc. without disturbing any other major component (the transmission is mounted separate to the engine in the frame). You can replace a clutch in 2-3 hours. On the older Deeres or Case ? -try a day and you need heavy equipment to do it. Some of these machines will have high hours but there are many older 4WD's with not so many hours. Often farmers who used these only used them for the real heavy tillage work. The transmissions and plantetaries were more than adequate for the job so if you make sure you're OK here you'll be good for a long time. Making sure you're getting a good engine is probably your major concern. The 1970's built tractors are getting pretty cheap now.

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rboulware

03-23-2006 17:25:55

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to Don Wadge, 03-23-2006 12:27:50

See that is my BIGGEST concerned as if something breaks, How do you move all those heavy componets around without haveing EXTRA equipment to move them? Like for example on a 4020 or 5020 If I need to replace the clutch, MAN, you are talking splitting tractor and a MAJOR undertaking. This is what SCARES me about a big tractor or ANY tractor for that matter. Not really operating them or running them, but haveing to work on them if they go down on you. So you say "Versatile" Is real easy to work on? You say major parts like the tranny parts and the clutch is easy to get to and work on? This is a VERY attrative point if thats the case. I will look a Versatile right now then.

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Glen in TX

03-23-2006 12:23:03

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Lots of those older 4wd articulateds look and sound cheap but more tires to buy and they do drink more fuel too unless you're covering a lot of acres and got some big equipment to hook to them. Even then the older ones really like that fuel.

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Coloken

03-23-2006 11:21:25

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Hey, depends on what you are doing. I would say that if you have a 80 or 90 HP tractor on a 3 or 4 bottom 3-point plow, 2 wheel is enough. 6000 to 8000 lb tractor with a F11 farmhand loader--OK. A little 25HP Jap tractor with loader, better have front wheel drive. 24 to 42 foot disk or cultivator, all most imposible to be happy with 2 wheel. Those old Stiegers are cheap power but take LOTS of room to turn around. Friend is farming small fields (like 100 acres) with a 32 foot disk and grips all the time. Used to have a 190 HP Massey with front assist--realy liked it. (about 60,000 worth)

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Allan In NE

03-23-2006 11:14:35

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

Like I say,

I've never owned one of the things.

Reason being, I have never, ever been in a situation where I thought I needed one, because the lay of the land here is flat as a pool-table.

2-wheel drive tractors work just fine fer me. :>)

Allan

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Greg_Ky

03-23-2006 11:09:17

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

I have alot of hours on a JD 8630 and also stieger wildcat and bearcat. you can pick up a decent old stieger for under $10,000.00 JD you are going to pay alot more just for the name. Just my $.02

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Mike (WA)

03-23-2006 12:08:04

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to Greg_Ky, 03-23-2006 11:09:17

Friend of mine in eastern Washington (dryland wheat) just picked up a second Steiger for $4,500- says there's nothing wrong with it, and it runs strong.

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Specter

03-23-2006 10:56:12

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Re: Now I have to start ALL OVER AGAIN!! 4 wheel in reply to rboulware, 03-23-2006 10:43:15

I don't really have much experience on true 4 wheel drives, but I can relate to you what I've heard.

I think Steiger made very good products over the years. Again, just what I've heard. Versatile I think was also very good.

Case, on the other hand, wasn't as good, from what I've seen at the local dealership. The powershift was a chronic weakness in them, though not as bad as the 2 wheel drives. Also, they seemed to have a lot of trouble with the planataries and the steering knuckles (Case 4 wheel drives had crab steering). Most of the ones we had in the shop had some trouble with the planataries or steering knuckles around the wheels.

That's all I can really tell you. I hope it helps.

Specter

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