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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Emglo Air compressor puzzle

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Jesse in WI

12-03-2005 21:29:56




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Last winter I acquired an Emglo air compressor, which I am finally getting around to fixing up. I got it running today, and found that when it starts to build up pressure, it is releasing a lot of it through a manifold where two 1/8" lines come in to a junction on the end of the crankshaft opposite the flywheel. The other end of each pipe goes up to the air chamber on top of the heads. So, 1) what are these pipes for?
2)and is this air leak supposed to stop after a certain RPM is reached?
3) and, does anyone know of where I can find some emglo service documents online?
I do believe its a "J" pump. V-4, 2 Stage.

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doogdoog

12-03-2005 22:37:35




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to Jesse in WI, 12-03-2005 21:29:56  
Aloha, I don't know the specifics about your compressor but most electric motor driven compressors have a pressure cut off switch, one way check valve, and an unloader valve, and a pressure relief valve. It may not have all of them so it depends on your make of compressor. They all have a relief valve in case the motor doesn't cut off when it reaches the cut off point. On small compressors, the pressure cut off switch may contain the unloader valve and check valve all built into the switch. The unloader valve unloads the pressure in the cylinder head so it will start up easier when compressor starts up. How many cylinders does this compressor have? Does it have two? From your posting, you are saying that it is leaking from the manifold? Does it have a pipe from the manifold to the tank? If this is a gas engine driven compressor, after a preset amount of pressure is reached, it just may unload the excess air if it doesn't have an idle feature.

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Jesse in WI

12-04-2005 00:52:01




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to doogdoog, 12-03-2005 22:37:35  
The compressor is just the pump itself. No motor, tank, valves, anything. It is a 4 cylinder. Since I found myself needing to use my DA sander a LOT this weekend, I wanted to have a greater supply of compressed air. I had to do some piston work to free up and debur a ring stuck in the groove (a result of the final compression piston deciding to eat a valve and pein the top of the piston all up). I got it repaired and put back together, and found an engine with a v-pulley allready installed (it just happened to be sitting in my snowblower). I hung a belt around it, and it chugged to live with no load on the output pipe. I proceeded to go to the hardware store to adapt an AN-8 flare down to a 1/4" NPT just to help feed my craftsman one-lunger, and when I got the whole business together, the Emglo was huffing air out of the small orifice in the T fitting which is in line with the crank but on the other side of the pump from the flywheel. That fitting is the one I mentioned before as the "manifold". This is the same fitting that 2 ea. 1/8" pipes (one from each head) come to. I figured that there would be some unloading valve somewhere. Is it possible that it is governed by RPM, and it closes when the pump reaches proper operating speed? Maybe I didnt get it going that fast. To be honest, the pump was lag-bolted to a retired door laying across some sawhorses, and the snowblower was parked at the end close enough to reach with the belt. The whole outfit wasn"t too sturdy. I just wanted to see if it would work enough to be worthwhile. I would take some pictures, but my camera is on vacation at the moment.

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doogdoog

12-04-2005 01:03:46




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to Jesse in WI, 12-04-2005 00:52:01  
Aloha, "I proceeded to go to the hardware store to adapt an AN-8 flare down to a 1/4" NPT just to help feed my craftsman one-lunger". So are you saying that you are using that compressor head to feed your craftsman one-lunger tank? I think by your explanation that is the centrifugal unloader valve. When the compressor stops, it releases the air pressure from the head.



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doogdoog

12-04-2005 01:07:35




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to doogdoog, 12-04-2005 01:03:46  
Aloha, I forgot to add that you may need a check valve on the line that goes to your craftsman tank.

Mahalo,
doogdoog



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doogdoog

12-04-2005 01:15:25




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to doogdoog, 12-04-2005 01:07:35  
Aloha, Sorry about the repostings but I have a lot of distractions that cuts my posting short. The unloader valve is doing exactly what it is suppose to do by unloading the pressure. The problem is that you don't have a check valve on the line that is feeding your tank and when your feeder compressor cuts off, the pressure from the craftsman tanks feeds back to the compressor head and the unloader valve is bleeding that off. Install a check valve and that will cure your problem.

Mahalo,
doogdoog

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Jesse in WI

12-05-2005 05:20:37




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to doogdoog, 12-04-2005 01:15:25  
The check valve will only partially cure my problem. I never had it "in service enough" to have a condition where air was constantly being released from the unloader because it was coming from the craftsman tank when the Emglo was stopped. Yes, air was bleeding from the Craftsman tank all the time, but it should have stopped when the unloader valve closed.

The root problem is that apparently the unloader valve (if that is indeed what it is) is not closing to block air from escaping. This is apparent because I had the compressor going as fast as I dared (without the whole business falling apart, with the pump and table falling off the sawhorses, tipping over the snowblower, causing a chain reaction which would ulimately cause the garage to collapse and set the house on fire), and although I was managing to get about 80 psi on the line, the air was still escaping out of that orifice. My conclusions are:
1) My pump RPM are not reaching a threshold to close the valve or:
2) The valve is faulty and not closing when it should.

So, is there a way to tell if its a centrifugal valve? If so, about what RPM should it close?

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doogdoog

12-05-2005 13:01:00




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to Jesse in WI, 12-05-2005 05:20:37  
Aloha, Are you using the Craftsman only as a receiver tank and it is not running? Ok, how are you running the output of the slave compressor to the Craftsman? If you are running the output of the slave compressor to the Craftsman receiver tank without any check valve in line, then it will leak from the slave compressor when it stops. Does the unloader valve from the slave compressor leak when the compressor is pumping? If it doesn't, then the unloader valve is working correctly. I don't know exactly at what rpm the unloader valve should close but most compressor pump turn faster than 900rpm. Where on the Craftsman tank is the air leaking from? You could have multiple problems so work it one at a time.
1. When slave compressor is running, air should not be leaking from Craftsman tank (see #4).
2. Air should not be leaking from slave compressor unloader valve when compressor is running. If it is then the compressor is turning extremely slow for the centrifugal weights in the unloader to function. It could be stuck if it leaks all the time.
3. No check valve in output line from slave compressor. Put one in.
4. Craftsman tank should not be leaking unless it is purging from the safety valve (excessive pressure in tank for predetermined setting of safety valve). Reason being that the slave compressor has no way of telling when to cut off. That should be enough for now and get back if you have any further questions. Are you able to post a picture of your setup??

Mahalo,
doogdoog

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Jesse in WI

12-06-2005 10:36:20




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to doogdoog, 12-05-2005 13:01:00  
My Craftsman tank in its default config has a regulator that will bleed air from the downstream side if it is higher than the regulator is set. In other words, if I have the reg set to 40 psi, and I apply 80 psi to the line downstream of the regulator, the reg will bleed off the excess pressure. I knew that going in to this project. When both the Emglo and Craftsman were plumbed together, the reg on the Craftsman was set to about 110 psi. Even with the Emglo running at its fastest I would let it at the moment, it was still bleeding air from the unloader. So far, I have determined that either my pump is not going fast enough to close the unloader, or the unloader is faulty.
This morning I found a website that lists the emglo pumps and their breakdowns. I found out that my pump new would cost almost $1100!. Not bad for getting it for free. Unloaders are not that expensive. I'll try to post a link. In case it doesnt make it, paste this into your browser:

Link

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doogdoog

12-06-2005 10:53:07




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 Re: Emglo Air compressor puzzle in reply to Jesse in WI, 12-06-2005 10:36:20  
Aloha, That's a neat looking pump and did you notice the new type of unloader? I wonder if that will give any problems in the long run. My two stage head has been running for over 25 years without any problems and I built it myself piece by piece. Looks like you narrowed down your problem so good luck and let me know how it turns out.

Mahalo,
doogdoog



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