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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles

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Tim B MA

11-04-2005 10:46:27




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I am using John Deere brand paint to repaint a leaf vac trailer. I am brushing it on straight from the can on low visibility parts. First coat dried 3.5 days. On the second coat, patches of the paint dryed in puckered wrinkles. Did I just put it on too thick, or are there other things I should look for?

Thanks.




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Tim B MA

11-05-2005 05:18:13




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
Thanks for the responses gents. The paint is a John Deere brand enamel. The instructions on the can do not specify a tempurature range like most paints do.

Because the wrinkling was limited to two patches, my gut tells me I just put it the second coat on too thick at those locations.

As a precaution, for the remaining brush on areas I will sand the first coat before applying the second as suggested.

For the visible areas where I will spray paint, I will apply subsequent coats while the previous is still tacky.

Thanks again.

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Pale Rider

11-05-2005 03:55:38




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
Wow, this runs counter to the advice you are getting but I'll say it anyway. The only time I have had problems like that is when I have waited too long in between coats.....such as a day in cool weather. I don't claim to be an expert, and the advice concerning proper temperature thinner made sense to me, but that's what my experience has taught me and as long as I paint the next coat within an hour or two I have never had the problem.

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kyhayman

11-04-2005 16:21:25




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
I made a mess like that on a IH 140 using OEM paint. Had to strip it all back off with Jet Strip and start over at bare metal. Thinner was too fast for the temp and I let the first coat dry too much on top. Normally, I try to add each coat just as soon as the previous coat flashes off. That one flashed and soft set in less than 2 hrs. My mistake, I was using up to 80 degree thinner and it was in the mid 90's.

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Mike Van

11-04-2005 13:51:22




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
One other thing, if someone was touching the paint day after day to see how dry it was and had used any lanolin or silicone hand lotion, the surface would be "contaminated" by it - Something you dont want.



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Dan

11-04-2005 12:43:04




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
There are two causes for this problem - letting the paint dry too long, or not letting it dry long enough. Let me explain - multiple coats are best applied so they can chemically bond from one layer to the next. This way - it makes the paint just like one real thick layer instead of actual multiple seperate layers. To achieve this, the first coat cannot be allowed to form a hard shell - or it will keep the second layer from chemically bonding to the first layer. Now, this first layer (especially enamel) will take MANY days to weeks to fully dry, especially when applied thick like with a brush. Just because the top of the first coat has a semi-hard shell - does not mean the paint underneath has fully dried. Now, if you apply the second coat on top of the semi-hard paint below - then the top shell of the first coat will start to slide around as the second coat dries (because the paint underneath the shell of the first coat is not completely hardened yet and only semi-firm) - this causes wrinkles.

Now, you could always wait the extended time it takes for the first coat to FULLY dry and harden, then put the second coat on. However - you would need to rough up the first layer (lightly sand) to give the second coat something to really grab onto, otherwise you would just have multiple layers of paint sitting on top of each other and it would flake off easier.

I hope this isn't confusing the way I wrote it. On my tractors, I only let the first coat dry a couple of hours when I apply it with a brush before I apply the second coat. This gives the paint just enough time to thicken up so it won't run, but not enough time that it forms a hard shell on top. If I want more coats, I wait a little longer between coats with each layer (because it will take much longer to dry and to firm up).

Good luck,
Dan

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Ranger John

11-04-2005 12:36:09




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
Did you rough up the first coat? If you wait too long, roughing up the first coat to give the second coat something to hold on to might help.



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JefLTN

11-04-2005 12:25:26




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
What kind (type) of paint are you using? If the paint you are using is a two part kit such as a polyurethane of Epoxy Polymide it sounds as if the catalyst (hardener) wasn't added. That would explain the long dry time and the reactivation when the second coat was finally applied. That by the way is what it sounds to me is happening.

When you applied the second coat, the first coat was reactivated by the solvent in the second coat. Check with the source (manufacturer) of the paint and find out if there is a catalyst required and what the mixm ratio is. Also find out if a reducer/thinner/hardener is recommended to promote curing.

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Jay (ND)

11-04-2005 11:35:26




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
Check your can - I think that you let it dry too long between coats. It's common in rattle-cans - a lot of those you can't let sit for more than an hour.



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deanop

11-04-2005 11:21:20




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 Re: 2nd coat paint puckered wrinkles in reply to Tim B MA, 11-04-2005 10:46:27  
might be a compatiability problem with the existing paint, whether or not you primered...but if the first coat adhered, sounds like humidity/temperature/thickness could be issues..i'm not paint expert, just my experiences..



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