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Diesel Injector Pump

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Sig

06-09-1999 10:12:50




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I have a C.A.V. DPA 3230070 diesel injector pump on my tractor that appears to be seeping at the joint between the main housing and the distribution housing. I have been told there is an O ring that most likely needs to be replaced. Would it be practical for me to try to replace this O ring, or is this a task only to be accomplished with special tools and calibration equipment? I would have to take my pump/tractor about 150 miles to have someone rebuild the pump.

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Diesel Dan

06-10-1999 20:52:53




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 Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Sig, 06-09-1999 10:12:50  
The O'ring on the head of the pump can be changed with basic hand tools. A little patience with the top cover will be required. Suggest getting a genuine Lucas kit and it will have a pump break -down picture in it. Part number 7135-110. All seals and gaskets will be in the kit. Replace top cover shaft O'rings while the cover is off as they will start leaking next.
In defense of fuel shops: We are in the business of rebuilding pumps to like new condition. It's poor business relations when a customer brings in a pump and you replace just one o'ring when it really needs an over haul. If one seal is bad you can bet the others are just as bad and will start leaking also. The head o'ring which Sig has never leaks till it gets glass hard. The other seals in the pump are in the same condition.
If all fuel shops just patched pumps they would soon be out of business. Equipment costs are high and to maintain any level of service it requires a good reputation of quality which only a good rebuild can provide. Diesel Dan (the pump man)

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Phil in MS

06-11-1999 06:20:15




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 Re: Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Diesel Dan, 06-10-1999 20:52:53  
If my last post implied any wrong doing or over pricing by the pump service that was not my intent! My point, I hope, was that the repair was expensive and was caused by MY NOT changing the fuel filter in a timely manner! I meant no disrespect toward the pump repair shop I used!



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Bern

06-10-1999 21:41:52




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 Re: Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Diesel Dan, 06-10-1999 20:52:53  
Dan, points well noted in your post. Maybe it's just the shops I do business with around here. One in particular wont even bench test a pump for me without tearing it down first to make sure it's not contaminated! Now I ask you, why can't they just run clean fuel through it and dump whatever comes out of it first until their clean fuel comes out?

It is for this reason and the others I noted earlier that I've started doing a lot more pump repairs myself. For example, I've repaired a handful of inline Simms pumps lately with cam bearings going out of them. I just take them all apart, keep all the plungers, etc. in order, and don't touch the rack. I clean everything up and set up the cam end play just like I do anything else with tapered bearings, put it all back together, and never have a problem. Now, if I send the same pump into my local pump shop for the same repair, I'm told I need a new cam because it has a few small pits in it, I'm told I need new plungers and barrels because they're slightly discolored, etc. I don't get out of there for less than $1200. I do the same job for cam bearings only for about $200 (and the pumps stay together).

I guess this all boils down to what the shop is willing to allow the customer to decide when questionable potential "problems" appear. My point in the last post was that it has been my experience that fuel injection repair shops are far less flexible in this area than any other types of shops that I do business with. If a guy brings something in for repair and it needs a lot of work that he won't let you do, you either don't do the job, or you tell him you will but wont stand behind it. On the flip side, don't replace a bunch of parts that still have a lot of service life left to them, because then guys like me will be doing less business with you.

P.S. please don't take any of this personally.

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mjla

10-01-2006 18:42:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Bern, 06-10-1999 21:41:52  
bern hi would like to learn how to repair cav roosamaster stanadyne cats bosch and more ihave rebuilt aprox 1000 pumps in my 21 yrs since olds diesel pump 2 day training in 1985 ive done these with no test bench im amechanic not aparts changer im trying to put together a tour nation wide to teach people like you & me ineed input on this matter idont know how to get my email yet so please call me in fl 863 385 5596 or 863 381 0538 or anyone else lets get this going!

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Diesel Dan

06-13-1999 19:50:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Bern, 06-10-1999 21:41:52  
Good points and well taken. You want to know why shops refuse to run or check old pumps? Here's why. (1) Test stands are just that. They can't detect worn bearings,bad seals,broken parts,sticking valves ,or broke springs. Sometimes they can but usually not. Stands are just a piece of machinery that runs your pump at a fixed RPM and gives the result out. The technician has to interpret the results. Say the fuel is low. Why is it low? Should he blindly set the fuel up when in fact a camring or roller or some other item is at fault. Only a complete tear down will find the cause. (2) Test oil in test stands cost 6 dollars a gallon and they hold about 12 gallons. One pump in which a technician forgets to drain the fuel out of (especially the RED fuel) will ruin the test oil. That dye is real strong.(3) I find it real hard to charge a customer for checking a pump and to find it bad and then charge him for an overhaul to.
The best test stand is the tractor itself as the pump runs the tracor.If you want the best price on a rebuild have the shop tear the pump down for a quote and if it's to high take the parts to another shop and let them quote you.
Keep on repairing them yourselves as we always get a laugh out of the ways some people put'em back together. I just put a new modem in my computer as I am all thumbssss. My computer shop couldn't service it soon enough and I hated paying him, so I guess I am as guilty as the next guy when it comes to repairing my own stuff.
Diesel Dan (the pump man)

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P. Shetler

06-10-1999 06:50:44




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 Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Sig, 06-09-1999 10:12:50  
Good advise from all (and special kudos to "Dieselman" for his willingness to help folks out on this forum). If you decide the leak is enough to worry about, I should think you can easily do this job yourself (without a rebuild). Before you touch anything else, take a centerpunch and mark both the pump body and the place it is mounted to so you can put it back in exactly the same place (it rotates around the centerline to adjust timing). If it runs OK now, it will run OK when you put it back with the new o-ring. Read up on bleeding the air out of the system when you are done.

Good luck!

Peter Shetler

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Dieselman

06-09-1999 22:53:33




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 Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Sig, 06-09-1999 10:12:50  
Sig..... ...I'd go with the advice bern told you. There is one question that comes to mind. How bad is this pump seeping? Enough to watch a trickle of diesel fuel come down the side while it's running or does it just sweat enough that it collects a wet dust around it after a days work? If it's just sweating and don't make a major mess I'd really not worry about it. Alot of the older tractors are like that and like bern said once it hit's the shop they will want to put a complete rebuild kit in it consisting of o-rings and gasket and possibly a few parts too. More than likely they will tell you that the roller(s) are shot and need replaced along with a few more this and that's. Don't drive the (tractor?) to the shop. Remove the pump and send it to them. They are not that complicated to retime. Diesels are very intimidating to those that have never worked on them. If you want help email me and let me know what exactly it is that your removing it from and I'll see if I can help you with removal and replace.

Respectively
Dieselman

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Bern

06-09-1999 12:46:53




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 Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Sig, 06-09-1999 10:12:50  
This job is possible to do without a box full of special tools, however, unless you have some prior experience with these and/or some very explicit instructions for it, I would remove the pump from the engine and send it out. Most pump shops don't get too excited when someone brings in one of these pumps all in pieces.
I would also question whether or not the o-ring is the only problem here. Most static o-rings like this don't just "give out" unless they get extremely hot, a scenario most unlikely with a fuel injection pump. I can say in my experience that I've never seen a leak in this area, and I've been around a lot of CAV DPA pumps.
On the flip side of this whole discussion - it has been my experience with the pump shops that I've dealt with that once they get a hold of a pump to work on, that they want to rebuild the whole thing, and if everything inside isn't in pristine condition, they want to replace half the parts. I can understand this somewhat from the standpoint of being able to stand behind the pump after they fix it, but it just seems like the shops that I've dealt with don't show a whole lot of flexibility in this area. If it was mine I would repair myself. If you do it, make sure you know what you're getting into before you do.

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Phiil in MS

06-09-1999 15:18:48




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 Re: Re: Diesel Injector Pump in reply to Bern, 06-09-1999 12:46:53  
I let my pump freeze about two years ago! The shop rebuilt and painted the pump and it cost $ 495.00 U.S. I was lucky in that a friend helped me remove the pump and properly marked it for reinstallation! I got the pump back from the shop on the same day( took them about four hours) and I replaced it myself! Believe it or not, but it cranked and ran without a lot of hassle!

The lesson learned was change fuel filters on a timely basis before winter charges in!!

Good luck!

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