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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

ford 800 ignition problem

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Bill Bohna

10-09-2005 05:32:31




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Hi, I just purchased a ford 800 loader and backhoe. I am trying to start it. The tractor does not have any spark to the plugs. I checked the coil and I have spark on the positive side and the side going to distributor, but not out of the spark plug wire going to the center of the distributor. Is the coil bad? any suggestions would be appreciated. thanks.




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John T

10-09-2005 10:04:59




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 Re: ford 800 ignition problem in reply to Bill Bohna, 10-09-2005 05:32:31  
Bill, I agree OLD has ya on the right track. The coil wire should fire from out of that center high voltage terminal to frame ground EACH TIME the points break open AFTER having been closed. If you remove the distributor cap and have the coil wire end still in the coil but the removed from cap bare terminal end to within 1/8 inch or so of the frame or head etc, insure the points indeed open n close as shes cranked over, and EACH TIME THEY OPEN the coil wire should spark to frame. Or else (engine not cranking) you can use an insulated piece of wood or plastic etc to let the points close and then open them and each time they open the coil wire should spark to frame.

If the coil wire is firing each time the points break open but NOT the plugs,,,,, its EITHER a bad cap (check for cracks or oil or moisture or carbon traces and the top center carbon brush),,,,, ,,,,, ,,,,or the wrong cap,,,,, ,,,,, ,,,,,or a bad rotor tip,,,,, ,,,,,or bad plug wires,,,,, ,,,,, , or even bad plugs. See if the plug wire bare ends will spark to frame and if they do but NOT the plugs, the plug is bad.

Have you checked for spark at more then only one plug????? ?? Do any plugs or plug wires fire??? If some do n others dont, its EITHER bad plug wires or bad plugs on the non firing cylinders and/or the cap may still be bad (cracks or oil or broke) at those particular terminals. If the removed coil wire ALWAYS has a good spark to frame BUT NO PLUG WIRES it could be a bad rotor tip or the top of cap where the carbon rotor contact point is bad. CHECK THAT OUT if its broke there or the carbon brush is bad or the rotor tip is bad she may not fire out any cap towers!!!!!

Although that below may be way more then you need and some of above is repeated, to save time I will post my Standard Troubleshooting Procedure for non firing. Always check the simple easy most common causes first like bad or misgapped points or shorted wires or condensors then the plugs n plug wires and the cap n rotor.

TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:

PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor (leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps that gap with a good visible blue spark????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves don’t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!! !!!!! If so, running a point file between them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that’s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,, ,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6 volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source attached to the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,, ,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,, ,,,or theres a shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,, ,,or the points wire is shorted,,,,, ,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,, ,,,or the points may have a shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,, ,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,, ,theres voltage present on distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,, ,voltage on coils low side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,, ,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,, ,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,, ,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the plugs, they are baddddd ddddd . Check them BOTH.

Good Luck n God Bless, post back any questions and your findings and any questions.

John T Nordhoff in Indiana, retired electrical engineer who usually lurks over on the Mother Deere boards versus over here on the “dark side”.

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Feron

10-09-2005 07:41:53




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 Re: ford 800 ignition problem in reply to Bill Bohna, 10-09-2005 05:32:31  
Check to see if you have spark at the points inside the distributor. If not it could either be the coil , the small wire going into the dist that feeds the points, or the points



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old

10-09-2005 07:41:22




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 Re: ford 800 ignition problem in reply to Bill Bohna, 10-09-2005 05:32:31  
Spark is only made when the points open and close, so if your checking with out the point being opened and close you will not have spark. If you are turning the engine over and checking and no spark then you could have bad point, cap, condenser. Any one of the can cause you to have no spark. I start by putting a full tune up in it.



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