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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Binders while chaining up.

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Loren

10-08-2005 08:56:11




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I see folks advise to use binders on a trailer load quite a bit. I'd like to offer up my 2bits on them for securing a rolling/mobile load. I only use one binder if at all possible. This due to the chance of them unlashing( the fewer possible problem the better). Example of hauling a tractor or truck. I always start at the rear. Period. A good solid chainup there has to hold all the load in a quick stop. The hooks should be oriented in a way that if the chain slacks gravity will keep the hooks connected. The binders only get used on the front and then only if I can tie the binder handle to the chain. Pulling all the load forward and binding will help ensure the binders don't come loose. Maybe not in reality but sounds good in my peabrain. If need be I'll add a strap binder under tension to keep it all snug. Think of what will happen when something may and act ahead to save your bacon. Loren.

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fluggie in IA

10-09-2005 06:48:20




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
Ok! Most everybody replying here is close to right. In load binding, the rules taught me by the DOT is the chains must be in undamaged condition (no deep gouges, cuts, etc.), no splice links, sized for the load binding, and a 4 point tie off with 4 separate chains and 4 separate binders, either ratchet or whatever as long as, again, sized for the load. After all, these rules are for everyones safety, not just for fun! Safe hauling to ya all!

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New-Gen

10-09-2005 05:33:46




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
You say"
"I only use one binder if at all possible. This due to the chance of them unlashing(the fewer possible problem the better)"

That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. Put that little "peabrain" of yours in gear and think a minute:

Now...(work with me here)...You have one binder holding the load...it comes loose....how many binders are now holding the load?? Ummm....none?

Ok.....now....(still with me?)....let"s put a chain and binder on each corner, pullng crossways....(you know...like the DOT VERY strongly recomends and most intellegent people concerned about public safety and their own liablity would do)...A binder comes loose....now....(at this point you may have to get a calculater or a second grader to help you with the math).....How many binders are left holding the load???? FOUR!!!!! WOW!!!! What a CONCEPT!!!!! !

But honestly Loren, you might not want to take the word of a man who has spent the past 21 years hauling equipment and dealing with police officers all across the country...bettr to live in your own little world and operate with that little "peabrain" you seem so proud of...

I just hope when you venture out into the part of the world occupied by me and those I care about that one binder and long chain hooked in itself do their job..

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Dave Sherburne,NY

10-10-2005 08:13:49




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to New-Gen, 10-09-2005 05:33:46  
Why is a chain with a load binder in it consider to be better than a tight chain with no binder in it? I do as stated above chain the rear tite,drive the tractor forward to really tighten the chain.
Put the chain on the front as tite as possible with
no load binder, then tighten it with a binder.
Tie the binder so it can't open . If it does open
the chains are still as tite as I can make them without binders so, very little slack to allow movement of load. Incidentally I don't believe the government knows everthing. They are probrobly advised by
people selling load binders.

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Loren Coffin

10-10-2005 18:24:19




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Dave Sherburne,NY, 10-10-2005 08:13:49  
Because someone told him so. I can understand the thought about 4 indivual chains. Two on the rear instead of a single from corner to corner would be better. There is nonone that's going to convince me that 4 binders are better. Period. One loosens and you now have the possibility of the hooks unhooking from the ALL the others and then there's a real mess. When a hook loosens from the binder/chain you would have a BUNCH of slack in a lot of cases because so many people use use all the slack in the chain between the binder hooks. Go ahead and yell at me and call me names if you must. I think about every chainup. I don't do it the way I was told because some desk jocky came up with a rule. Oh, and by the way, I have asked the state police here about this stuff. Response was that as long as it looks reasonable there's no problem. I don't haul for hire, or for work. I'm sure that would be a different situation that some of you may not have thought about. Loren.

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720Deere

10-09-2005 13:43:35




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to New-Gen, 10-09-2005 05:33:46  
"Ok.....now....(still with me?)....let"s put a chain and binder on each corner, pullng crossways....(you know...like the DOT VERY strongly recomends and most intellegent people concerned about public safety and their own liablity would do)...A binder comes loose....now....(at this point you may have to get a calculater or a second grader to help you with the math).....How many binders are left holding the load???? FOUR!!!!! WOW!!!! What a CONCEPT!!!!! !"

If you have four and you take away one, my peabrain tells me (a second grader would probably tell me the same) that you have three left. Three is better than none for sure, but it's not FOUR as you so strongly stated. If you're going to make a strong statement, get it right so the peabrain is the only one that looks stupid.

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New-Gen

10-09-2005 17:57:41




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to 720Deere, 10-09-2005 13:43:35  
I stand corrected.....THREE binders would be left holding the load...Which is two more than peabrain #i started out with in the first place....

At least my stupidity in this case doesn't have a chance of getting someone killed....



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720Deere

10-09-2005 18:21:36




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to New-Gen, 10-09-2005 17:57:41  
Hey, I have to have a little fun every now and then!

Hopefully the only one that will get injured is the one that didn't chain his load down SAFELY! I wonder why the DOT requires a semi to have either a headboard on the trailer or a headache rack on the tractor, but tag-a-long trailers have no such requirements?

He will find out the truth some day when his tractor is sitting in the bed of his 1/2 ton pickup because he had to stop too quick for some other idiot. That of course is providing that he actually has working brakes on the trailer.

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Loren Coffin

10-10-2005 18:44:26




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to 720Deere, 10-09-2005 18:21:36  
You fellas made a simpler mistake than you think I'm doing. Making assumptions that are incorrect about what I'm doing just put the both of you into a class worse than my refering to myself as peabrain. Happened onto this from another post. ???

" Of course the DOT rules only apply to vehicles over 10,000 lbs engaged in commerce. "



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720Deere

10-09-2005 05:27:41




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
You better read the regulations real carefully! Even on tractors under 10,000 lbs two chains (even with two binders) is not acceptable. You need to prevent forward, rearward, vertical and lateral movement. You cannot possibly do all of these with two chains. The rear tiedowns are also more important as they prevent the tractor from ending up in your truck bed in an accident.

Lever binders on a mobile load such as a tractor are legal, but very foolish. For less than $30 you can buy a good ratchet binder that will hold regarless. Lever binders are difficult to get tight and keep tight. With a ratchet binder if it seems a little loose you just give her another click or two. It is doubtful that a lever binder would hold in a severe accident. If you need to wire the lever to the chain to feel secure, do you think that it is safe?

No less than three chains each with their own binder per tractor with two of them on the rear of the load. I always use four per tractor as I feel the minimal investment of time and money is well worth the security that it offers. Accidents aren't planned, but with a little effort they can be prevented.

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wayne2

10-10-2005 04:37:48




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to 720Deere, 10-09-2005 05:27:41  
I'm in complete and wholehearted agreement!!!



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New-Gen

10-09-2005 05:39:14




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to 720Deere, 10-09-2005 05:27:41  
There is nothing wrong with lever binders....when used properly they are as good as and in some cases superior to ratchet binders and easier to use. In fact I have found in a lot od instances ratchet binders are more likely to work loose than a lever type...Just pull down that lever with your very best 3' cheater pipe, smack the handle and the hooks with said pipe to take make sure nothing is binding up, wrap the excess chain around it and go...

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ShepFL

10-08-2005 18:33:33




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
I see to much scary stuff running down the roads anymore. Myself I run a binder at each corner 4 point tie down.

I run chains crossways and apply the binder to the opposite corner i.e. RH rear binder'd to LH hook point on rear of the trailer, LH rear binder'd to RH hook on rear of the trailer, then repeat for the front. Knock on wood have never had anything come loose yet. My chains are not brand new but they are HD. I wire my handles to the chain and check load at every stop for fuel, bio break etc.

Way I look at it while I am not running commercial but God forbid something happens (other idiot drivers) I want my load still on my trailer after all is said and done - even if the load is in the ditch on it's side.
FWIW

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Ohio puller

10-08-2005 16:31:40




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
Everyday DOT, highway patrol, counties, and locals are cracking down more and more !!!!! If your not secured correctly that's one of the first things they see and once they stop you, anything else wrong they will find it !!!!! All this will cost you out the A$$ !!!!! Besides all that why would you want to even take a chance ? If you do it the way the law requires you too and something bad does happen, at least you have made an attempt to be safe as well as legal and if lucky maybe have something left after the lawyers are done!!!!!

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the tractor vet

10-08-2005 12:56:24




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
Since you only use one binder for your two chain loading i don't want to meet you on the highway haulen anything as you are one of the reasons the DOT is getting tougher on all of us , And one day you will get to meet someone new and he will get into your wallet big time maybe even impound you truck trailer and load and then you will get to meet more new people . Almost every time that i make a move anymore we get stopped and checked over and that is why we had to spend 38 bucks each for 12 new chains as the old ones they could not read the G70 on them and the new binderat 30 a pice as the DOT officer was telling me don't think you can get away with that cheep import junk I'll have you towed and impounded . but hey what do i know i only haul light loads under 200,000lbs.

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Ducknose Bob

10-08-2005 13:54:49




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to the tractor vet, 10-08-2005 12:56:24  
I agree with you 117.5%. Some of the s$$t I see is scary. I would love to be able to issue some citations and impound some vehicles, then I would like to be the judge when they came up to trial. Can anyone say MAXIMUM penalty?



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John S-B

10-08-2005 12:28:40




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
I usually use a clip or wrap the binder with excess chain so it can't possibly release itself. I use the hole in the end of the handle to run a spring clip or wire around the chain.



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Keith on DelMarVa

10-08-2005 20:04:17




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to John S-B, 10-08-2005 12:28:40  
all my binders, when I used to pull a tag-along with a backhoe behind an f600 dump, had tie wire in the hole in the handle. All binders were pulled down with a 4 ft piece of pipe then wired tight. replaced the tie wire after 2-3 uses.

Never had a chain go slack on me.


Keith



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Brian in Ohio

10-08-2005 11:29:46




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
I agree with Rusty. I'd rather be overly safe, and use two binders, one on each end, and KNOW that the load isn't going anywhere. If you binder BOTH ends, then you shouldn't have to worry about slack in your chain, and your load shifting.



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Loren Coffin

10-08-2005 11:53:40




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Brian in Ohio, 10-08-2005 11:29:46  
See what you mean but I don't care for adding more pieces. My point is to makes as few "hooks" as possible, making less chance for something to un-hook. I've had a chain so long on the rear that I doubled back through the tractor and hooked to itself. Took up all the slack and you've still got only two hooks to deal with on the rear. Simple rope tie the chains together just above the hook to keep the downhill hook in case of a slack. Guess it's just what does it for me. Add another binder and you've not only got 2 more hooks but the tensioner too to possibly fail(or loosen).

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upred

10-08-2005 19:22:37




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren Coffin, 10-08-2005 11:53:40  
what if that long chain broke?? I always use a 4 point tiedown - it is also required, 5 point if hauling a back hoe. I know a guy that hit a low telephone cable while hauling his tractor/backhoe; the trailer tipped on its side and the tractor stayed on the trailer.



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RustyFarmall

10-08-2005 13:42:52




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren Coffin, 10-08-2005 11:53:40  
Doubling the chain back and hooking it to itself is not an accepted method, nor is it legal.



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RustyFarmall

10-08-2005 09:08:12




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to Loren, 10-08-2005 08:56:11  
I agree with chaining down at the rear first, but unless the chain is just exactly the correct length, you still need to use a binder.



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chris sweetland

10-09-2005 07:59:01




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 Re: Binders while chaining up. in reply to RustyFarmall, 10-08-2005 09:08:12  
ive finally seen enough about other drivers im building my self a helicopter so i wont have to be admist all the stupidity on the road



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