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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Antifreeze- which one?

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Jrry

09-22-2005 07:19:56




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There is the old green type and the new enviremental frindly type but this cannot be mixed with the old stuff. I think I saw a new one that can be mixed with either. Anyone have any ideas. I have several tractors and aboout to get ready for the cold weather.
Jerry




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Ohio puller

09-22-2005 18:29:47




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Jrry, 09-22-2005 07:19:56  
To answer your question John one engine was a 153 Budda, one was a 262 Gleaner, and one was a MTA. There is also a Cat D9 where I work that is being looked at right now by Cat for engine failure and Cat is saying it is due to mixed coolant. I'm not here to argue or prove right or wrong all I'm saying is the facts that I've collected due to costly poor luck in my opinion tells me don't mix. All three engines where redone by complete different machine shops, all engines had exact same damage and all three shops said the same thing. Engine failure was due to the mixing of different styles of coolant.

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Mark - IN.

09-23-2005 02:40:47




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Ohio puller, 09-22-2005 18:29:47  
It'd be kind've hard to argue with 3 different shops, none whom have anything to do with the other, and of course a manufacturer, Cat, whom may end up voiding warranties when all is said and done. That'd be a pretty expensive "Oops". Is my understanding that do not under any conditions mix the old stuff, with the new stuff, which Buick named down below. That is an absolute no no. I can remember say, 20 years ago when Prestone for example was green, and either Peak or Xerex was blue, but the active ingedients were the same, and not to be confused with the new pink stuff.

About a year ago, one of the Deeres was a little low, and always had the old green Prestone. Hmm, wasn't any around, but found new Prestone pink stuff, had never seen it before, was pink, so in it went. The Deere was due servicing, and when was at the Deere guy's place, I mentioned it. He asked, "You didn't really do that did you", to which I answered with a stupid "Uhh Huh, just did, why?". He was the first guy to tell me not to ever do that again, before he flushed the system and replaced it with the pink stuff. Now I've got trucks and tractors with pink or green, none with both. Is not the only mechanic to tell me, nope, not under any conditions, and like yourself, none of them knows any of the others.

Mark

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John M

09-23-2005 03:47:38




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Mark - IN., 09-23-2005 02:40:47  
Well, guys Im going to back out as no matter what my years of expeirience with coolants, dyes, additives and testing those packages in different manufacturers coolant formulas tells me, Im going to be wrong as the test we performed arent real world test and the same test are invalid in the real world. What the original poster refered to will not damage anything except the enviromentally friendly package of the coolant

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Mark - IN.

09-23-2005 08:55:19




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to John M, 09-23-2005 03:47:38  
John, if you go down in flames after saying not to the first time, then so does the Deere guy whom flushed and replaced mine after I did it, and so do I. I will never mix them again.

Mark



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John M

09-23-2005 13:57:25




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Mark - IN., 09-23-2005 08:55:19  
Thats your preference and there is by no means anything wrong with that. Im just merely trying to say, that different coolants can be mixed without any damage to an engine.Teh original post asked about the enviromentally safe type of antifreeze.It CAN be mixed with conventional coolant.The problem is, that when the stadard antifreeze is mixed with the enviro safe type, the enviro safe typ is no longer enviro safe due to the toxic chemicals in the standard green.Thsi holds true for MANY,MANY types of coolant.It also holds true for these extended life cooalnts such as the mentioned Cat ELC,Rotella ELC and the like.The color of an antifreeze make no difference what so ever.Example: John Deeres green is the EXACT same formula as the Zerox GO5, just dyed a different color,JD green and Zerex gold respectivly.It CAN be mixed.Now,can the ELCs be mixed with conventional coolants.YES! but the ELC will loose its ELC properties,again, due to the toxins in the standard antifreeze.What does this do to an engine,well,in all of our test,with different types of metals,rubbers and plastics, and rusted all to heck,nothing!However,there we did not do any type of friction tests,BUt the small vats we used were heated to 230 degrees and parts were just kinda moved around in the vats and the only contact the parts had was with each other or the bottom of the trays they were placed on.We found no damage of any type to any parts this way.Thsi is my experience with coolants and that is what I was sharing,does that mean someone else will have the same results,no.I could go on about this but like I said before, I will be wrong in the eyes of the experts on this board who have had things ruin because of inappropriate use of antifreeze.I mean no disrespect to you or anyone else, just trying to share my experience with those who know better than me.

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Ohio puller

09-22-2005 15:44:08




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Jrry, 09-22-2005 07:19:56  
John M you are incorrect about the info your giving. One example, call Cat and ask them what happens when you mix Cat exstended life ( pink or red ) with regular ( green ) and they will tell you how one destroys the other and you have no pertection. Mix if you want, I'm not looking to argue but I do know for a fact, mix the wrong two and it's going to cost you. Not just an opinion, been there, done that. I can show you at least three engines that had to be redone due only to the mixing of so called old ( green ) and ( new ) pink. Good luck, I'm just trying to help.

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John M

09-22-2005 17:19:21




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Ohio puller, 09-22-2005 15:44:08  
Well, bud, 18 years of making the additves, dyes ,and in some cases the accuall coolant for more than a few MAJOR coolant manufactureres tells me that many,but not all coolants are pretty much the same. What engines are you talking about that the coolant ruined?



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John M

09-22-2005 14:17:35




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Jrry, 09-22-2005 07:19:56  
You can mix any of them you want,green,yellow,orange,purple pink,.....it doesnt matter! What DOES matter is that if you use a particualr brand,say the enviromentally friendly kind, with say the plain Jane ole green antifreeze,the thing that makes the enviromentally freindly kind enviromentally friendly will be contaminated and no longer be enviromentally friendly. I use to make the stuff.



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Ohio puller

09-22-2005 09:21:40




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Jrry, 09-22-2005 07:19:56  
The old has to be flushed out completely if you use the new type. If any trace of old mixes with new you will have a bunch of problems, anything from not enough protection to head gasket ect. Trust me when I say not knowing we found out the hard way!!!!! I now use the old in my older tractors and what the manufactures say to use in the newer tractors, trucks, ect. Hope this info helps and I don't know of any that will mix as far as old green and new type.

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buickanddeere

09-22-2005 08:38:39




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 Re: Antifreeze- which one? in reply to Jrry, 09-22-2005 07:19:56  
Propylene Glycol is non poisonous. If there is a leak into the crankcase the propylene glycol doesn't wreck the bottom end either. Old antifreeze may still be good to –40 but the corrosion inhibitor is done. Say hello to pitted through wet sleeves.



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