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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT: Bull ------ fees

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Warren in Wisc.

09-12-2005 13:39:56




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I know this is way off topic, but I figure some of you are farmers and may be able to help me out. I have a registered beef bull that one of my neighbors would like to use for breeding two of his purebred heifers. If I do this, I would probably have to board his heifers for a month or two until they are bred. My problem is: I have no idea what to charge, not only for the stud fee, but also for boarding the two heifers. I don't have a lot of spare pasture, so it will eat into my hay stock. What do you think, what is a fair price for a fee? This is not a friend, just someone who saw that I have the same kind of animals (Belted Galloway)as he has.
Thanks for the help.

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730 virgil

09-13-2005 11:20:25




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to Warren in Wisc., 09-12-2005 13:39:56  
i think ai is to way to go . who knows what grief you bring home trying to help a guy out i have 4 cows use heat synchronization breed 3 cows in one day had 3 calves within 48 hours last one a bull what i need is a head gate for highland cows
they have a good set of horns .
who do i call ?



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Hal/WA

09-13-2005 10:43:20




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to Warren in Wisc., 09-12-2005 13:39:56  
I suppose "pick of the litter" would be asking too much..... .

But seriously, I would research what AI would cost your neighbor, and also would do some thinking about how much trouble it would be for you to deal with the breeding.

I assume you have some cows of your own if you are keeping a bull. A bull can successfully service a number of cows in a time period, but I don't remember just what that number is supposed to be. My guess is that unless you have a lot of cows, using the bull for those extra heifers will not be a problem to your herd, and any money you get will be pure profit. It costs a set amount to keep a bull, if he is breeding 3 cows a year or if he is breeding 50. The bull will be happy about extra female visitors too!

I would inquire as to the age and size of the heifers. Sometimes a big bull is too heavy for successfully breeding smaller heifers and can actually injure them trying. When we kept bulls, we usually tried to replace them at about 3 years of age, to avoid the size problems and to try to avoid the problem of the bull breeding his daughters. Our herd was mostly Herefords, but we kept Holstein milk cows. I remember once having a very young Hereford bull who wasn't tall enough to properly reach our biggest milk cow when she came into heat. He tried over and over, but kept falling down. I ended up leading the cow into the creek and the bull was finally successful standing on the creek bank. It was a real nice calf, one of that bull's first sons.

We had some trouble keeping our bulls in the fence if there was a cow in heat anywhere close to our ranch. Even with pretty good line fences, we sometimes would have a bull get out. Their instincts are very strong to mate as many times and with as many females as possible. For several months every year, we kept the bull locked up in the very secure bullpen to control the season when we would get our calf crop. We also found that by keeping a bull, we had less trouble with our cows taking off when they were in heat.

Hereford bulls are about as benign as any bull I have ever been around. I have never been around Belted Galloways, so I don't know how those bulls are. BUT ANY BULL CAN BE MORTALLY DANGEROUS!!!!! Be extremely careful around any adult bull, even if you hand rasied it with a bottle from a baby calf. They might do something that really surprises you. Been there, done that, hopefully never again!!!

I would doubt that you would need to board the heifers for any length of time, unless they are really wild. It is quite obvious when a cow is coming into heat. If you decide to have your bull service the heifers, have their owner bring them over when he notices the first signs of the heifer coming into heat and then take them home a day or 2 later when the bull has done his job. Unless your neighbor's fences are pretty good or unless the heifers are quite far away, the heifers might very well come visiting on their own.

The potential disease problem might be a concern. I would look over the neighbor's place that he keeps his heifers. If it looks reasonably clean and the animals look and act healthy, they probably are OK. If not, don't allow the animals on your property.

If the neighbor is planning to register the calves, assuming your bull is registered, there may be requirements by the registering association. Now would be the time to find those details out. You don't want to put yourself in position to have a hassle later. And maybe a contract would be a good idea. These are sue-happy times.

We had fairly good luck using AI on our dairy cows some of the time. But sometimes it took a couple of tries at AI to get a particular cow pregnant. However, only a couple of times in my experience did we have a cow that would not get pregnant when serviced by a bull, and those 2 cows never did conceive. They went to market the next time we sold any cattle and were probably sterile for unknown reasons.

I guess I would find out what AI would cost, if it is available with that breed, and then charge some more than that for your time and trouble. Good luck to you.

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Oliver

09-13-2005 06:40:43




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to Warren in Wisc., 09-12-2005 13:39:56  
Have him get a health certificate from a vet then bring his heifers over when they are in heat. If he brings a 6 pack, the job should be done about the time the beer runs out and you can charge him $50 bucks if you want to but you might need a favor from him sometime. So if it were me, the 6 pack would just about take care of the deal.



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john in la

09-12-2005 18:34:34




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to Warren in Wisc., 09-12-2005 13:39:56  
I agree with JMS.
Tell him to AI them and do not look back.

You are taking all the risk from bringing some disease on to your farm and he gets all the benefits. It could be some disease that his cow has immunities to but your cows have never seen so they get sick.

If this guy does not have the time to watch the cows or does not know how to detect heat he can still AI by using synchronizing drugs. This way he can bring both cows in heat at the same time and breed per instructions. While watching heat signs is still good when using drugs you can get a 85-90% pregnancy rate by breeding per the drug time table.

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JMS/MN

09-13-2005 11:35:12




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to john in la, 09-12-2005 18:34:34  
I went through the AI school 25 years ago for our own 70 cow dairy- a classmate had only 7 beef cows, so I could not understand her thought that it was worth the school and the equipment cost for so few head. I always got calves, and under two straws per calf. Need to pay attention to details for success- water temp, thawing time, recognize what you're feeling in the repro tract. Like you say- now with synch drugs like lutalyse, easy to breed only one animal- don't need to know much about signs such as clear discharge, nosing, mounting, etc. to get the timing right. Pre-breeding vet check, double shots of lutalyse, timed breeding= about 80% success rate the first time.

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RYAN BLAND

09-12-2005 14:15:25




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to Warren in Wisc., 09-12-2005 13:39:56  
WE RUN REGISTERED RED ANGUS IN WEST TEXAS AND I HAVE DONE A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF BULL LEASING, OR STUD SERVICES, WE NORMALY LET THE OWNER OF THE COWS TURN THEM LOOSE IN A PASTURE WITH OUR BULLS, AS LONG AS THE VET HAS CONFIRMED THAT THEY HAVE NO DISEASE, ALSO WE PUT IT IN A CONTRACT FOR EVERY 1 BALE OF HAY WE PUT OUT THEY NEED TO PUT ONE OUT, AND FOR EVERY BAG OF FEED WE PUT OUT THEY REPLACE THAT, ALSO I HAVE A COUPLE OF GUYS THAT I AI FOR, THEY FURNISH THE SEIMEN, $25 A HEAD, I FURNISH THE SEIMEN $45 A HEAD, AND THERE IS ENDLESS POSSIBLITIES TO WHAT YOU CAN DO, JUST MY PEICE OF ADVICE

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JMS/MN

09-12-2005 13:45:31




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to Warren in Wisc., 09-12-2005 13:39:56  
The cost of boarding the heifers would be pretty straight-forward to figure, according to what you feed them, plus your labor. Bigger unseen expense might be your disease risk, bringing unkown animals onto your farm. Same risk for his animals. Does he have the option of monitoring the animals and using AI? As long as he has two of them, and knows what to watch for, timing the AI should be easy.

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mike brown

09-13-2005 06:19:23




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 Re: OT: Bull ------ fees in reply to JMS/MN, 09-12-2005 13:45:31  
Everyone I know has taken the bull to the cows not the other way around. Kinda like taking your lamps to the store to get lightbulbs replaced .
Neighbor of mine once got his heifer bred by allowing her to get out when she was in heat. She dashed over to my place and jumped the fence in with the bull who promply bred her. Neighbor appologized and with my help took her home.



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