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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Any clover farmers out there????

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diggerdave

09-08-2005 10:53:02




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Hi All got a question about seeding red or white clover OVER existing grass/weeds. Let me explain.. Ive been a part time xmas tree/ bb nursery stock grower for over 15 years. Little over 10 acres of trees and a few transplant beds.. nothing major. In all that time I have always mowed to keep the grass down (and even used electric hand shears to clip the weeds..) Yes I’m a glutton for punishment. (I don’t like to use roundup like sprays either.) In trade mag I read about a guy who uses clover as the ground cover to keep the weeds down. This got me thinking is it possible to seed clover over top of the existing grass/weeds or would I have to kill all the grass/weeds and then seed the clover? I don’t even know how you sow clover..nor do I have a way to seed it if it requires special equip..so keep that in mind. So in your opinion is this feasible or would I be wasting my time and $$. (In my area both the red and white clover grow really well naturally..its all I have in the back yard and when its thick nothing seems to grow thru it...) Appreciate any feedback. dave

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Old Pokey

09-08-2005 21:20:46




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 Re: Any clover farmers out there???? in reply to diggerdave, 09-08-2005 10:53:02  
That's interesting, we do everything we can to keep the clovers out of our nursery. If you wish to sed it by hand, there is a device called a "clover horn". It is a long nose funnel type thing with a canvas bag attatched to it. You fill the bag with seed and then as you walk along you swing the funnel tube side to side at what ever width you wish. I used to have one that I would use to reseed the wet spots in a field when they drowned out over the winter. Of course you can also use a "belly grinder" type spin spreader. Kind of like a caseron spreader. I would think you would want a very low growing clover for your ground cover. I'm not really sure, but I think white clover known as S-1 is a low growing white. It is very hardy in wet ground so it should take any irrigation you put on the nursery. The clover will soak up a bunch of water, so that is something to consider. I'd also look into the insect problems that may or maynot conflict with your nursery. I know the clovers will attratct aphids, weevil, and netadulides(sp?) If any of those are detrimental to the nursery plants, you may have to spray more insecticide. Good luck, I hope you find what you need.

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Leland

09-08-2005 19:42:15




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 Re: Any clover farmers out there???? in reply to diggerdave, 09-08-2005 10:53:02  
ATV would be the easist way to do this just go out on the coldest day it is always that way for me and broadcast the seed I go a little heavier than 5#s more like 7 and this way you can get closer around trees and you always can lease this out to a couple of hunters and make some extra cash off the deer.



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Jimmy King

09-08-2005 14:07:13




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 Re: Any clover farmers out there???? in reply to diggerdave, 09-08-2005 10:53:02  
I used to sow Red Clover in Fescue with an old John Deere grain drill with a seed box on. I had very good results. I have drilled it in the fall, but had better results in late Feb or early March. I had a stand once so thick, it killed the fescue, I never sowed over 5# per acre. If conditions are right with some of the new Red Clover a good stand will last 3 years. We combined seed several times, once I had 30 acres make 100# per acre. At a buck a pound I sold about 2000# that year. Ground that is up to fertillity for alfalfa, is the best, but doesn't have to be. Inoculating the seed helps, but not a must.

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B. Butler

09-08-2005 12:47:52




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 Re: Any clover farmers out there???? in reply to diggerdave, 09-08-2005 10:53:02  
A lot of the guys doing food plots for deer are overseeding with clovers in old fields, log roads, inaccessible spots in openings in woodlots using ATVs or by hand with minimal/no tillage. Clover does pretty well in low fertility and low PH soils so it's a good choice. Of course adding lime in the fall where soil tests dictate and a little fertilizer in the spring will help give the seedlings a real boost.From what I read and from the fellows that I have talked to the key is killing off the weed/grass competition the year prior to frost seeding in late winter/early spring. Experts recommend an herbicide (roundup or generic)application at least two or three times during the year with the last spraying in September. Some say close grazing by livestock or very short mowing in the fall will do ok sometimes. The key is to reduce competition so the new clover plants don't get shaded out by the competing new spring growth. The dead grass and weeds from herbicide application actually act as a mulch in the spring to hold moisture and protect the new seedlings from wind and sun. I've frost seeded clover and other grasses in the past with limited success because I didn't kill off the competition.

For your application using several kinds of clover as a ground cover frost seeded into previously sprayed ground might just work pretty well for you. Good luck. This is just what I'm doing on my farm and on some hunting ground my buddy owns.

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chuck Bolton

09-08-2005 12:11:38




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 Re: Any clover farmers out there???? in reply to diggerdave, 09-08-2005 10:53:02  
im assuming that when you say white clover you mean the dutch clover most of us have in our yards and pastures. it does real well folllowing a wet yr and then the germination % drops off--
you will always have some but not so thick-- white sweet clover is a very tall and stemy plant--im sure this isnt what you want, red clover is easy to start and moderately inexpensive to purchase. it does grow to about 20-24 inches. to have that in your trees id still think youd want to mow it-- it is very easy to start-- i sow in pastures --over seed in feb. the freezing and thaw and extra moisture is great for covering the seed and helping to germination.

as side note--id put sheep in the trees --they will keep the grass shorter and youalso have a side income.

good luck

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supergrumpy

09-08-2005 11:22:33




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 Re: Any clover farmers out there???? in reply to diggerdave, 09-08-2005 10:53:02  
had some time on my hands and was trying to get some nitrogen back in an old corn field gone to weeds, bush hogged and tried overseeding 8 acre field using red clover seed in a hand held rotary seeder (another glutton??), those seeds are tiny and I spread 3 60lb bags

considering my investment I came out OK but its a lot of walking and only got about 2% germination, field looks pretty good right now

wild celery and thistles outgrow the clover so maybe this is what not to do, I plan to try "frost seeding" next spring just as the snow comes off

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