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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ???

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TractorMike

09-07-2005 18:28:58




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Hey ya"ll, The yuppies have opened up a bio-diesel/veggie diesel/ fake diesel (or whatever you want to call it) station here in Asheville NC, And I was wondering??? Does this stuff hurt your diesel engine?? I have herd from several people that you can"t run it for very long because it"s not good for your engine, However the yuppies think it"s the greatest thing there ever was fuel wise.? So I was wondering if it does indeed harm your engine or not? My mom is thinking of using it in her F-250 7.3 liter diesel and I don"t want to see her ruin a good engine if it"s bad stuff. Thanks for the comment"s. TractorMike

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Leland

09-08-2005 20:05:28




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
Veggie oil will not hurt them I saw a farmer run all his equip one fall on straight sunflower oil and he gained hp and the pyro only jumped about 50* . but this guy raised all the flowers on pic ground and built his onwn press.



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JT

09-08-2005 17:40:57




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
I ani't no yuppie, but a neightbor went to using it in his KW, I think he said he upped his fuel mileage by 2-3 mpg, I know for a fact that when I went to using it in my PS Ford, my mileage uncreased by 1.2 MPG first tank, second went up .6 MPG, if it is getting less btu's so be it, but my truck is getting better economy with bio-diesel, runs great. I think it is 10% mix.



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Marty g.

09-08-2005 04:56:56




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
Mr. Diesel himself got is engine going on peanut oil way back then...



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Errin OH

09-07-2005 21:22:20




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
Kind of an open ended question like is Ford a good tractor? Bio can be in the form of B100 all the way down to B5 or B2. B100 being 100% bio and B5, 5% bio, 95% petro mix. It can be made from seaweed, nuts, plants, etc. Just about anything that produces oil even aminals. Problems with any bio vary depending on what you get. Bio made from virgin oil tends to be the best and most expensive. Problems with it tend to be from the solvent side of things. You put it in and all the sudden filters are cloged with all the crud that was stuck to the sides of you lines and such. Once you get through the inital shock problems disapate. Including the filter issue. Winter compounds the issues with a gel point at about 32F. adding cost to the use of it. The reasons for concern on older vechs is the solvent properties tend to eat away rubber seals and lines. Some metals as well, copper (I think) being one. Doubt I'd ever run it in my old case 970. After about 94 most vechs didn't use rubber thus don't have the problems. A mix with regular diesel can cause some of the same issues but not as quick as a straight bio and you may never notice them with regular filter changes. Bio made from WVO (waste veg oil) will have the same issues but add to that the particles of food and the filter issue really shows itself and may not go away. Filtering, washing and drying will help, but one bad batch and the whole lot is contamanated. There have been many stories of this problem as home grown producers are reluctant to throw out a batch unless they absolutly have to. You have to remember the process for good and bad is the color. So its off a shade or two?? Between time and production cost it is like throwing money away. Another thing they like to do to keep cost down they do it all in one vessel. Bad idea as far as I am concerned. To many risk involved. Questionable mixing, residuals in lines, inability to wash. You just don't know what you are getting. All comes down to the product is only as good as the effort. You plan on making 40 cent bio, plan on issues. You go and buy $3 bio better know who you are getting it from. Personally I think bio is a good idea. Cost effective? Depends on the cost to produce a reliable product. Even counting the inital equipment as a long term investment, proper production (virgin oil / drying filtering WVO, treating mixing, washing x2, drying, filtering, waste disposable) production alone puts it over a buck.

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Mike in Ind.

09-07-2005 19:40:16




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
Well one of the head guys of my two cyl. club runs a co-op that sells bio diesel but it is a small ratio of the fake stuff mixed with the real stuff. He says they have had no problems with it so far but that is his word not mine.



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JImmy King

09-07-2005 19:40:02




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
Mike from what I hear it will not hurt your engine, but you will need to carry new filters for a couple of tanks it will clean out the system. The big truck drivers reports I have heard are they pick up 1 mpg and have more power on a 20% mix. You can use any % mix you want or straight. With no harm to the engine. The oil co's are putting it down because they are scared to death.



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JImmy King

09-07-2005 19:39:46




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to TractorMike, 09-07-2005 18:28:58  
Mike from what I hear it will not hurt your engine, but you will need to carry new filters for a couple of tanks it will clean out the system. The big truck drivers reports I have heard are they pick up 1 mpg and have more power on a 20% mix. You can use any % mix you want or straight. With no harm to the engine. The oil co's are putting it down because they are scared to death.



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Jay (ND)

09-08-2005 09:37:27




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to JImmy King, 09-07-2005 19:39:46  
Thats wrong, you won't get more mpg with less BTUs. Also the major engine manufacturers are all recommended no more than 5%. I think more than that is going to give problems with rubber & plastic components & seals. I've been running B5 for 2 years, so you can't say that i'm anti-bio, it's just that there are a lot of misinformation out there. If you don't believe me about what it does to rubber, I can show you a fuel hose that was new 3 months ago that is shot now from B100.

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Gorilla

09-07-2005 19:48:50




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to JImmy King, 09-07-2005 19:39:46  
I have been using 20% biodiesel for some time. The big 3 supposedly are ok with a 20% or less mix. (doesnt void the warranty) I have read though that it can damage seals & stuff in older equipment. 1994 or older they dont recommend biodiesel. The stuff I use meets the "standard" for diesel fuel... I dont remember the initials for the standard..somebody on here probably does. I would be leary of mom & pop fuel production. Be sure it meets the federal standard.

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edchainsaw

09-07-2005 20:49:10




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to Gorilla, 09-07-2005 19:48:50  
Most companies are saying they will not make a "USE IT" statement... they say I DONT THINK IT WILL HURT ( thats a quote from our CaseIH district service guy)

I know of an old VW rabbit running 100% used cooking oil and runs fine... has been for quite a while.. the owner said he's not had a seal problem yet... but he does have to switch over to reg fuel at cool down so it will start

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Jay (ND)

09-08-2005 10:16:48




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 Re: Bio-Diesel / veggie diesel, Question ??? in reply to edchainsaw, 09-07-2005 20:49:10  
Link

Link



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