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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Assessing an unknown engine

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L.C.Grey

08-07-2005 09:53:37




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I'm trying to determine what I'm starting off with in an engine that I'm unfamilliar with its past. Engine is a IH I-4 (C-152?)

It appears to be stuck. no way to manually turn it over at this time

It has spent an unknown time with the stack missing and open so I have to assume its been rained in.

I removed the spark plugs and 3&4 looked normal. 1&2 had light rust.

I dipped a wire into each cylinder to see if they were standing in water and all checked dry.

I put about 8 oz. of thin oil in each cylinder to soak and after 2 days 3&4 are again dry and 1&2 are still holding liquid.

Pulled drain plug to check for water in pan.... pan toally empty. All that came out was about 3 oz. of the thin oil I'd put in 2 days earlier. No sign of any kind of any water.

I'm working on the assumtion that 1&2 have been wet in the past and are stuck. I can't figure out why the pan was totally empty. Even if they'd run it dry enough to lock the engine I'd think there was still some oil remaining in it.

My next step is to put it in gear and drag it a few feet and see if it will turn over at all.

Should that not work I guess I'll pull the pan for an inspection of the lower end and possibly a hydraulic jack under the stuck cylinders rods.

Whats y'alls assessment of this engines condition and what else might I do. I really want to get this one going asap.

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Redmud

08-07-2005 16:09:15




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to L.C.Grey, 08-07-2005 09:53:37  
Remove the head and run a hone in the cylinders above the pistons, vacuum out the rust and crud and add ATF and Kerosene or Diesel to all cylinders. Remove the oil pan and then let the engine set for 24-48 hours. The cylinders that have drained of the fluid that was added to them are ready for piston removal. The ones that didn't drain, are the ones that were stuck in the first place. You may only have one or two pistons that are really stuck, but removing the ones that are not, first, makes the stuck ones just a tad more easy to remove. And for those you use the jack on the crank trick.

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Philmar Farms

08-07-2005 14:06:23




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to L.C.Grey, 08-07-2005 09:53:37  
My experience has been that a spot of rust the size of a quarter across three rings will freeze an engine. Or the cylinder might be so full of rust you can"t tell the piston from the sleeve.Your oil will have hard time getting past a thick layer of rust. First things first. Pull the valve cover and make sure the valves are loose.Check the magneto drive. Penetrating oil:PB blaster,kroil primrose,ATF,or real turpentine. They all need time to work! Next you want to get the pistons moving. You can jack up one rear wheel and rock it with the tractor in gear some one working the crank. What I usally end up doing is pulling the head.While its off it can be inspected for leaks and valve condtion. Clean out the clyinder so the oil can get down along side of the piston. Vibration will help break the rust.A plate of thick steel on top of the piston and air punch will rattle good. I always seem to end up with a block of wood and a sledge hammer. The block should be of good hardwood. Turned round and cupped on the bottom so the force to the edge of the piston not the face. Remember that another piston maybe stuck. A loose piston should wiggle enough to see the oil move around the edge. Any of these procedures can cause unnormal stress on engine parts! Lots of luck[you can"t get it at the parts store]

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dbwillia

08-07-2005 13:51:51




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to L.C.Grey, 08-07-2005 09:53:37  
I have heard that a cup of regular household dish soap in each cylinder will free an engine in two days or less. Sounds like it would be worth a try.



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old

08-07-2005 12:08:54




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to L.C.Grey, 08-07-2005 09:53:37  
If it where me I'd refill each cylinder with tranny fluid. I'd also fill the pan with old oil say something you drained from a good engine and fill it as full as I could. Then let it sit a few days. Then I would try to turn the engine over. There has to be a way to do it with out pulling it. There should be a botl on the crank shaft up by the rad you could put a wench on to try to turn the engine

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comfortking

08-07-2005 11:47:00




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to L.C.Grey, 08-07-2005 09:53:37  
You may want to find out why the pan is empty. Did this engine go bad and has already been looked at by someone else?



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L.C.Grey

08-07-2005 12:44:35




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to comfortking, 08-07-2005 11:47:00  
Thats a total head scratcher... I have no way of finding that out.



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Rustyj14

08-07-2005 10:46:02




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to L.C.Grey, 08-07-2005 09:53:37  
Before doing what you have suggested: i.e. the big towing chain, you had better read the previous posts on what or how to do it to get an engine un-stuck! By doing what you suggest-you might/ probably will do a lot of damage to an engine that might be salvageable!! Try some automatic transmission oil in each cylinder, and some penetrating oil, or some of the other ways the fellows have posted here! Be patient--going at it the wrong way will surely mess up an engine and the parts! Patience is the blessing here. By the way you describe it, it may have 2 pistons with broken rings, they may have come apart, may be blown out, scored walls, anything is possible! Ask and you shall receive, they say! And, hold the hydraulic jack!! Any quick, hard things you do now may ruin what could be saved with some patience! Remember steel junk doesn't make you rich, unless you own the scrap yard! Rustyj

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L.C.Grey

08-07-2005 13:00:10




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 Re: Assessing an unknown engine in reply to Rustyj14, 08-07-2005 10:46:02  
I've read many many methods for unsticking the old engines on here. Some of them border on insanity to me, but they must have worked for someone. I agree that this is something that needs to be done with as little force as necessary to achieve success. In this case, traction is such a severe problem, I doubt this machine can even be pull started even if it wasn't stuck, on its wide slick steel wheels.

As far as the jacking solution I speak of, its more of a matter of applying a little pressure and let time work on it. Over a little time you can add a little pressure and ease 'em out. By doing it on each individual rod, you're applying force only to the one cylinder rather than all 4 thru the crank. A fellow tractor fiend of mine has used this method very successfully several times.

Worst case scenario..... hunt down a couple of runable sleeves and pistons. If I have to, I'll sacrifice a rough but running H for its engine. Bottom line is this machine somehow WILL live again.

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