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High quality refrigerants??

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Hurst

07-20-2005 16:39:30

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I am going to add a can of 134 to an allis 7000 that has been converted, but I am wondering if I should use the high quality synthetic stuff if I am only adding to old 134 that I don't know what it is? Also, is the stuff with oil, leak sealer, and dye with the refrigerant bad for the system? I was thinking of adding a can of this to get the conditioner and oil and the refrigerant, not too much for the sealer, though it would be good if I have some leaky connections and the dye would be good for detecting leaks in the future? Thanks

Hurst

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Jon Holt

07-23-2005 21:03:30

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Re: High quality refrigerants?? in reply to Hurst, 07-20-2005 16:39:30

I work in the auto industry and have done a lot of ac work. I have done retrofits and the like. I use the "plain-jane" r-134 with the small can of "cool shot" in most all of the jobs that I do. I always add dye into the systems as it is easier to identify a leak with the dye than with an electronic leak detector. I have never had dye clog up a fixed orifice or an expansion valve. The dye used in the auto industry only has a usable life in the system of about 6-8 months (according to GM publications that I have read). I have also used the can that has the sealer and freon all in one. I put two cans (one in one summer, the second the next summer) in my personal vehicle as the rear evaporator connection o-ring was leaking and I could not get it apart, so it was cheaper to try that than to cut the line.

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T_Bone

07-21-2005 06:24:27

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Re: High quality refrigerants?? in reply to Hurst, 07-20-2005 16:39:30

Hi Hurst,

You don't want to use refrigerant with dye. The dye will seperate from the refrigerant at low spots in the piping, then travel to the expansion valve or orifice tube and plug them.

Do not mix refrigerant oils even made of the same common base.

Below is a tread I recently posted on refrigeration therory that might be of interest.

T_Bone

Refrigeration Therory

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Nolan

07-21-2005 02:59:28

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Re: High quality refrigerants?? in reply to Hurst, 07-20-2005 16:39:30

I'm skeptical of synthetic R-134. That sounds like a marketing gimic to me.

I wouldn't bother with seal swellers and oil and the like unless you've really got a problem and can't locate it. Generally, the oil in the system right now creates an oily spot where there is a leak. If all you've got is a minor leak that requires a top up every year, I'd just add a can of R-134 and not worry about the leak.

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NC Wayne

07-20-2005 20:15:44

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Re: High quality refrigerants?? in reply to Hurst, 07-20-2005 16:39:30

I'm just getting into working on the mobile A/C systems so all I've got to go on is a little OJT knowledge and alot of "book smarts". Like Bob said you don't want to mix the oils or you'll wind up with a mess. Too the different oils mixing can cause chemical reactions in the system which will eat it up from the inside out. Unless you have a massive leak your probably not gonna see enough oil anywhere to really amount to anything, if you see any at all. So, unless it has a massive leak the system (which you'd need to have the system opened up and fixed for anyway) it should still have a full charge of oil so adding extra, even of the right type, isn't really good for it either. Depending on where the leak is the sealer may or may not do you any good. There is a difference in R12 and 134 that allows 134 to "leak" more through the hoses than the 12 did. Depending on how long it's been since the system was converted that may be where the missing refrigerant went. The new hoses designed for 134 have a "barrier" inside them to prevent or at least drastically reduce the leakage to "acceptable" levels. So, basically the sealer isn't gonna actually gonna harm anything if it's not needed beyond taking up the room that that particular amount of refrigerant could be taking same as any extra oil would do. The dye will mix in and is inert so it's not gonna harm anything in the system either. Just make sure you don't add too much refrigerant to the system because too much refrigerant is just as bad for it as too little. Good luck.

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Bob

07-20-2005 17:03:46

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Re: High quality refrigerants?? in reply to Hurst, 07-20-2005 16:39:30

What oil was put in the system when it was coverted? If there is ever a reason to add more oil, the same oil should be used.

Mineral oil... original oil for R-12 use.

PAG oil... for systems that have been R-134 since new, or systems that have been THOUGHLY flushed to get rid of ALL traces of mineral oil, and the compressor and dryer have been replaced.

Polyol Ester oil... for converted systems in which 80%+ of the old mineral oil has been removed.

If you inadvertantly mix mineral oil, PAG oil, and POE oil in a system, likely you will wind up with a system full of a substance with properties next to Jello, and no cooling.

That is why it is important go by official guidlines for conversions, change the service ports to R-134 service ports, and put a conversion sticker on the system listing what refrigerant and oil have been installed.

As far as dye is concerned, since oil is always circulating in the system, with the refrigerant, MOST leaks become apparent as an oily area with dirt stuck to it.

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