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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cylind

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ken galman

07-14-2005 04:16:49




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the 601 and jubilee had a nice 4 cylinder gas later replaced by the 3 cylinder in the 2000 and 3000 series, just wondering what experienced tractor guys think is the better engine, as I am considering a 860 or 2000 for purchase.
thanks,
ken




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ErnieDD

07-14-2005 16:51:08




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken galman, 07-14-2005 04:16:49  
FWIW, I would prefer a 851 over a 1966 3000, granted the 851 has 13 more rated horse, and the 3000 had power steering. The 851 would run a small chopper and plow better. I agree the 851 could use a ton more ballast, and we had calcium and inner weights in the tires.

In '67 or '68 there were more horses under the thousand series hoods.

An 469 haybine was too much for the 3000, the 5000 was matched nice.

We used the 3000 to chase wagons, mow, (JD#9) and rake hay. I did use it on a Ford pull type combine with wisconsin engine, it did a fine job there.

Never did have the opportunity to operate a later model 3000 or 4000.

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Billy NY

07-14-2005 08:35:59




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken galman, 07-14-2005 04:16:49  
I guess I can add a little to this, but most has already been said in regards to hundred vs. thousand series, no doubt the thousand series is better in many areas, however I think the best tractor for any job is the one suited for the work you will do and expense you can afford to pay to purchase and operate. And not to forget one you like, I love the appearance of the hundred series, which is nothing more than looks but makes it slightly more enjoyable I suppose, they are really sharp when re-done, painted etc.

Best thing one can do is qualify yourself for the features you really need in a particular tractor. 5 spd. vs 8 spd., or even a Select-O-Speed to be fair. Also consider that the first and latter are obsolete and will be more expensive to repair and find parts for. The 5 speed works fine, if you need lower end, the 8spd. mitght be better, same for higher end. Need remote hydraulics, live pto, independent pto or a loader, have considerable work to do or is it weekend, seasonal maintenance or misc. chores?

Currently, I have an 850 with a loader, LPG/Propane at home, and a 3600 at the farm, as well as an '03 33 hp MS 265 Challenger FWD with a loader. While growing up, I spent a lot of time over at our Ford tractor dealership, where many hundred series were sold and serviced, but the current models were the blue 3 cyl ones, of which we had every denomination up to the 8000, which to me at the time was a monster ! The newer ones like a 3 cyl. 4000 was really hard to beat, especially with all the features.

At home the 850 is still on duty and does the following, snow removal, brushogging, 2 bottom plow and disc for deer food plots, paid for itself doing one good sized landscape job last year, cleared some hefty brush and small trees along the entire perimeter of our 98 acres here, lugs all our hockey junk to down the pond in the winter, hefts my Miller NT251 trailblazer into the 3/4 ton when necessary, and a myriad of other things, I do need an overunning clutch for the brushog, but to be honest, its not that bad, and seems to be efficient on fuel, it cost me $15.00 to mow down what I believe is 2 acres, was over 4'0" high of thick orchard grass, took just under 2 hours in 1st gear, and did an excellent job with a 6'-0" Rhino SE-6. Power steering is not working yet, but between that and a few other items, for what I have into it so far, new tires, 1 new rim, new brakes, tune up, and fan belt, it's more than paid for itself already. Ironically, its got a lot of hours on it, the loader is well worn, it does the job for now and I envision doing a fair amount of work to it to keep it going, although I could justify something a bit newer, heavier like an industrial with a heftier loader, remote hyd., and all the other newer features.

Comparing the performance of each, and we've run both side by side, including a 4 cyl. diesel 2000, had a 64 4000 S-O-S ( was an excellent tractor) the 3600 sure holds it's own, but in the end, they all get the job done, some quicker and more efficient than others, it's really a judgement call, as some of the facts are clear, like fuel economy and features, one needs to assess their needs, budget and compare to the closest in approximation that a particular tractor will provide, and even then, and older one in good condition, may be far better than a newer one in questionable condtion, start with the closest thing you can afford, get the work done, so as not to delay finishing the work, see how it goes and then upgrade accordingly if need be.

If you are doing a lot of work, on a daily basis, the newer series is going to perform better and do more work for the same fuel. Same goes for loader applications, better to have the heavy duty front end, say compared to one like mine which is really a row crop tractor, with the adjustable front end, hard to believe it's held up, center pin certainly has some play in it.

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txgrn

07-15-2005 06:04:59




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to Billy NY, 07-14-2005 08:35:59  
Nice article. Thanks, Mark



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Rod F.

07-14-2005 06:20:35




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken galman, 07-14-2005 04:16:49  
Hi Ken,

In my mind, the 4 cylinder will never touch the 3, in any way. I would be willing to bet that if that 2000 is an 8 speed, it will outwork the 860 in every way, even if it has a bit less power. I've spent a lot of time on an 860 growing up, along with a Fordson Dexta, a 3930, 4000, 5610's and a 7710. I will always be fond of the 860, but not because of it's value as a useful tractor. It was an under weight gas pig. As a simple comparison, the 3930 with FWD is the same power as the 860. The 3930, in my experience will do more than 5 times the work on the same or less fuel. The 860 was a good tractor in it's day, but it's day came and went a long time ago.... If the 2000 has the 8 speed with live PTO, that's where I'd be headed. It's a superiour tractor. For what it's worth...

Rod

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john in la

07-14-2005 05:18:12




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken galman, 07-14-2005 04:16:49  
I would not let the engine decide which tractor I bought. I would look at the whole picture and then decide which is best for my needs.

A 860 is going to be a little more horse power so will pull a plow or a disc better. The 5 speed has a fast reverse in my mind and can be expensive to repair but the live PTO is nice.

Depending on what trans the 2000 has it can have live PTO; also the 8 speed is much better for close utility work.

So tell us what you need the tractor for and how is the 2000 set up.

I have a 861 diesel and love it; but sometimes wish I would have gotten a 3000D with a 8 speed instead.

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txgrn

07-14-2005 05:26:02




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to john in la, 07-14-2005 05:18:12  
John..... .there's still time. You never have enough tractors you know. Wives are understanding. You just have to codger up a good line as to why it's a necessary purchase. Grin.

Mark



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john in la

07-14-2005 05:46:56




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to txgrn, 07-14-2005 05:26:02  
Good Morning Mark;

Do not even go there. LOL!!!!!

Told the banker I had just about run out of repairs to do on my 861. Got it painted and all.
Even had a poster on the Ford board tell me he knew where a few 3000D fixer uppers were located no more than 150 miles from my house.

Boy that did not go over well. Instead of getting some money to get a new relaxing project..... ..... ..
I got a honey do list a mile long and a Home Depot charge card to buy the needed items for the repairs.
She said if I have some free time in the future a tractor may be posiable. In fact if I did not make progress to some free time we may have a tractor for sale. LOL..... ..

Any body know if Home Depot sells tractors. I got money to spend but it can only be used at Home Depot. Thats it..... What do you thing would happen if I go get one of those NEW John Deere mowers they sell and put in on her charge card.

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txgrn

07-15-2005 05:57:07




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to john in la, 07-14-2005 05:46:56  
Beins they're in cahoots with JD on lawn care stuff, maybe they could sneak in a big green one for you. Think she'd ever know.

On the honey-do list, I have learned: Never tell your wife you have nothing to do.....never!

Mark



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Lou Kocon Jr.

07-14-2005 05:38:26




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to txgrn, 07-14-2005 05:26:02  
Amen to what Mark said. You can't have too many tractors or a building that is too big!



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txgrn

07-15-2005 05:54:50




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to Lou Kocon Jr., 07-14-2005 05:38:26  
Isn't that amazing on the building's size. Just built my new shop and it was twice the size as the old one but today it is full. Now I grant you it's only for a day or so but it's still full.

Mark



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Joe(TX)

07-14-2005 05:16:28




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken galman, 07-14-2005 04:16:49  
The 4 cyl run smoother. Otherwise not much differance. The 3 cyl tractors could be had with the 8 speed transmission, which is a plus.



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txgrn

07-14-2005 04:39:18




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken galman, 07-14-2005 04:16:49  
I have (had) both and without a doubt the 3 cyl diesel is tops. With larger bore and stroke, it puts out more available torque.

Kinda like the torqy Johnny Poppers. I had a 96 hp 6 cyl deere and neighbor had a 55 hp popper (720D or 730D as I recall).

He could pull my plow in soil I had plowed (in previous years) faster than I could...so it was an apples and apples test.

Mark



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ken g

07-14-2005 04:45:01




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to txgrn, 07-14-2005 04:39:18  
Thanks, I was wondering particularly about the gas engines.



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txgrn

07-14-2005 04:58:38




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to ken g, 07-14-2005 04:45:01  
I guess proportionally they would be the same.

I have had more luck with diesels so my fleet is now all diesel. I can put the rpm's at say 1200 and put it in a comfortable gear and do most anything of a utility nature. It (they) just putt putt and when the load increases the pump just squirts more fuel and she keeps on putt putt.

Had a 2000D 3 cyl which is only a 30hp tractor and had a KK 6' mower on it which I also had used on a 3000D 40 hp tractor. Couldn't tell the difference in tractors when the going got rough. The 4 cyl 2000D can't hold it's rpm's like that.

Mark

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steveormary

07-14-2005 05:51:52




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to txgrn, 07-14-2005 04:58:38  
We had the Ford 850 and a Ford 641 which we later traded for a 3cyl.2000. Gas engines. Didnt have trouble with any of them,just did the routine maint. The 2000 had ps,lpto and the 4x2 tranny. Didnt miss it untill it was gone.

steveormary



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txgrn

07-15-2005 06:01:22




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 Re: whats the better eng. ford red tiger 4 or 3 cy in reply to steveormary, 07-14-2005 05:51:52  
My last remaining relic, my first restoration '64 2000D, has a 4 sp and tranny PTO. I agree that after using the 3000's with live and 8 sp, the relic has it's limitations; but I do like the tin.

Mark



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