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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Diesel/Fuel oil

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goofy

07-08-2005 18:29:26




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Is it OK and safe to use deisel fuel in a fuel
oil furnace? The reason I ask is there is a place that sells off road deisel for a lot less than the cost of fuel oil,but i would have to haul myself in small containers.







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john in la

07-09-2005 06:26:17




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
I would really like to take some of these guys under a fuel loading rack so they see the products that come through one loading arm.

The difference between fuel oil and diesel is about the same as the difference of a gallon of milk in a Borden carton as compared to a gallon of milk in a Wal-Mart carton. It is still a gallon of milk. Came out the same cow.

Some may be using a different fuel oil than the diesel in their tractor but the difference is the diesel is #2 and the fuel oil is sometimes #1. They use a lot of #1 or mixed #2 and #1 for fuel oil so it does not gel.

#2 fuel oil and #2 diesel come out of the same loading arm. The only difference is the label and the price.

The place you are buying from may be selling #2 diesel and #1 fuel oil. That is why the fuel oil cost more. Using #2 is ok but it may gel if it gets real cold.

To answer some of the questions below.
Off road diesel can or MAY have a higher sulpher content.

Low sulpher diesel can be used for on road (green) or off road (red) diesel.
BUT
High sulpher diesel can only be used off road and MUST be dyed red.

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Mark - IN.

07-09-2005 17:12:48




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to john in la, 07-09-2005 06:26:17  
John, will be the first to admit that don't know about the composition of gasoline, diesel, fuel oil, or kerosene. Diesel always seemed thicker to the touch, and don't recall ever having to thin out fuel oil in cold conditions like do diesel. I do remember having had a filter (fuel oil) freeze up, but was because of moisture from condensation that actually froze up. So actually, fuel oil should then grow algea when sets in a storage tank for extended periods of time? I personally don't use or deal with fuel oil, but for those that do, should they be worried about this? Who knows anymore, with EPA standards strickening on everything, peraps fuel oil furnaces have more components than old, that might be succeptable to algea? I don't know, just asking. Thanks for the info.

Mark

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john in la

07-10-2005 08:24:02




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to Mark - IN., 07-09-2005 17:12:48  
Fuel oil and diesel is the same thing but like I said most fuel oil sold on the open retail market is #1 or a mix. May even have some kero in it.

As you can see from my handle I do not need to deal with such problems. In fact most all loading racks around here only have #2. Out of the 10 loading racks in my area only 1 of them has kero or #1 diesel/fuel oil and it is 100 miles away from me.

Additives to control algae would be a jobber added item. I suspect a lot of them add it to keep the customers happy.

That’s like the place I work has truck stops all over the US. We do not need to worry about algae because we move so much fuel in a short amount of time but we always add stuff to our diesel in the winter to prevent jelling. (kero; #1; deicers) Do we do it for the customer?? That is a debatable topic but I would say yes. Some say we do it to keep the pumps working and that may be true since we do not winterize southern fuel even though the truck may be headed north.

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Mark - IN.

07-10-2005 18:51:19




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to john in la, 07-10-2005 08:24:02  
Thanks John. I certainly learned a thing or two, and that's never a bad thing. I sincerely appreciate it.

Mark



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Bus Driver

07-09-2005 04:50:33




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
The Diesel fuel is perfectly suitable and legal for use in a home furnace.



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Mark - IN.

07-09-2005 03:57:01




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
goofy, when I was 16 and working in a gas station after school and on weekends, this guy, Tom used to stop in and fill up two 5 gallen gas cans of No.2 diesel for his mobil home furnace all the time. When he told me about that, I couldn't understand it, but apparently it worked. Thing was, diesel was getting more popular because of fuel embargos, was up to about 45 cents a gallon, fuel oil was about 37. I think the issue there was Tom being kind of poor, couldn't afford to have the fuel oil guy drop off a 100 gal minimum fill, so 10 gals, 10 gals, 10 gals...at a higher rate. Would guess is suttier, may not be though.

When was in the Army, would live out in tents in the winter for months at a time. I forget what they called them, but were 2 piece gravity heaters/burners that were diesel fuel, which gets pretty thick in the cold. The Army said to thin the diesel with "DeNatured Alcohol" to thin. We never had "DeNatured Alcohol" in the middle of nowhere to use. One time got so cold was like gelled molassys, so we did exactly what the Army said NEVER do, we cut it with gasoline from a jeep. It worked for a while until the gas and diesel seperated, the diesel being heavier, the gasoline going to the top. About 20 of us sleeping when were awakened by the roar of that thin gasoline hitting that burner at a much more accelerated rate, EVERYONE out of our bags scrambling. Burnt that GP Medium tent to the ground with everything inside. When the Battalion Commander found out, was pisssss ed off. Sent us new C-rations, uniforms, and sleeping bags, made us sleep in the cabs of our trucks, jeeps for the next two weeks until let us come in for new supplies. NEVER try to thin diesel with gasoline in the cold.

For your furnace burner, may have to use a diesel fuel additive in the cold to keep from gelling.

Good morning from Busch's Durock 300, Mark

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John in Md.

07-09-2005 03:01:05




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
When the delivery truck fills the house tank, he tops of the farm fuel tank too. Same product just dyed red. Odd thing is that road fuel costs $2.33 and off road is $2.20 delivered around here.



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BUDD

07-09-2005 01:47:40




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
goofy;

There is a difference between fuel that you burn in your furnce and what you use in the truck or tractor (off and on road fuel is the same, just different color because of the dye and you pay tax for the truck fuel. I "think" the fuel you burn in your funece is more of a number one (kerosene) type) could be wrong in this, but I am close

BUDD



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BobMo

07-08-2005 20:06:48




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
Its also against the law to burn off road in your furnace and you supplier may turn you in for the reward. Be aware..... ....



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Dave Grindle

07-08-2005 22:58:10




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to BobMo, 07-08-2005 20:06:48  
off-road & furnace oil are the same thing ..... ..reason there's tax on "road" fuel is cause it's used on the road ! and the only difference between road fuel & off-road fuel is the dye (so the DOT can fine anyone useing offoroad fuel on the road's)



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streaker

07-09-2005 04:28:12




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to Dave Grindle, 07-08-2005 22:58:10  
I thought off-road fuel had a higher sulfer content?



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Greywolf

07-09-2005 11:57:40




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to streaker, 07-09-2005 04:28:12  
Off road is ALLOWED a higher sulfer content. It does not necessarily HAVE a higher content.

For many suppliers, storage becomes the deciding factor. Easier to just have a #2 diesel clear tank and add dye as needed to ID it as off road. That is what the case is "here" in a wide area around me.



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Bob

07-08-2005 20:52:09




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to BobMo, 07-08-2005 20:06:48  
Why can't you burn off-road (untaxed) fuel in a furnace???

Obviously, using untaxed fuel in an on-road vehicle is a no-no because it's a form of tax evasion, but what would be the problem with furnace use?



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edchainsaw

07-08-2005 19:14:24




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
been burning it for several years now..

its cheaper and cleaner than fuel oil...



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n9lhm

07-08-2005 18:32:01




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to goofy, 07-08-2005 18:29:26  
In many areas now, furnace oil and dyed (off-road)#2 diesel fuel are the same thing.



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mike brown

07-09-2005 06:45:15




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to n9lhm, 07-08-2005 18:32:01  
In NY, sales tax (8%) is charged on fuel oil. Off road diesel for farm use is tax exempt. Which one do you suppose farmers are burning in their furnaces/boilers? Correct. When I have my diesel tank and fuel oil tank filled they fill both on the same stop with the same truck and issue two different tickets, one with 8% tax added. I now have a diesel tank I can move to fill the fuel oil tank.

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Tim Wafer

11-13-2005 18:25:38




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 Re: Diesel/Fuel oil in reply to mike brown, 07-09-2005 06:45:15  
Dont know where you are in NY but here in Central NY Home fuel oil is tax exempt and sales tax is paid on diesel. Im sure of this because we just discussed this issue with several dealers. Thats why I buy fuel oil for the tractors and pump out of the same tank as the furnace in my shop.



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