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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

What is drawbar horse power?

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frankiee

06-17-2005 12:15:44




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Drawbar hp., Maximum Gasoline 25.50 We have a Farmall H and I looked up the horsepower.
Can anybody tell me what "drawbar hp" is?
How does 25.5 drawbar hp. convert to brake HP
Thanks




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What HP is!!

06-18-2005 08:24:49




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
Horsepower Defined

Exactly what is horsepower? Horsepower is defined as the amount of energy or work required to raise a weight of 33,000 pounds a height of one foot in one minute of time or to overcome or create a force which is equivalent to doing that amount of work. Therefore in simplified terms, a horsepower is 33,000 foot pounds of work done in one minute. However, horse power may be required at various power points of the engine and the calculation must be accordingly. For instance, the horse power generated by an engine, as indicated by the power in the cylinders, may not be the actual power which can be utilized for work as there is the friction of the engine to be considered. Then there is "brake" horsepower which is the actual horsepower delivered to the engine shaft and which can be used for work, and the "effective" horsepower, etc. The following definitions should add some clarity:

Indicated Horsepower

This represents the power developed in the engine cylinder as obtained from the pressure in the cylinders. This is pressure obtained from an indicator which shows cylinder pressures. Indicated horsepower does not represent the actual useful power delivered by the engine.

Brake Horsepower

This is the actual horse power delivered by the engine to the shaft. It is equal to the "indicated horsepower" less the friction of the engine. It is useful horsepower and is also called the "shaft horsepower".

Effective Horsepower

This is the final horse power delivered to equipment. An engine may be operating compressors, pumps and auxiliary equipment as part of its own power production needs, and the remaining power is therefore the effective power for drive. The difference between indicated horsepower and effective horsepower may be as much as 25%.


From "Tractor & Equipment Service" by J. E. Badley

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buickanddeere

06-17-2005 23:33:40




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
Drawbar HP or "work" is a known force over a known distance for a known time frame



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Allan in NE

06-17-2005 15:52:43




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
Frankie,

Drawbar horsepower is roughly the power you can get outta your tractor.

PTO horsepower is the magical number the salesman used to sell the derned tractor to ya in the first place.

You, more than likely, will notice a huge difference between the two figures. :>)

Allan



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txgrn

06-17-2005 19:12:17




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to Allan in NE, 06-17-2005 15:52:43  
Now Allan old buddy you just hit upon a curiousity of mine.

I look at spec sheets for all kinds of tractors from lots of manufacturer's. I look at Nebraska hp tests and all.

What amazes me is the huge difference between some drawbar and PTO hp's and others. Seems some are real efficient in that the numbers are real close. Whereas others are 20% off. Hard to believe that 2 machines in the same sorta business can be within 5% on one and 20% on the other. Hmmmmm m confusing.

Mark

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Rod F.

06-17-2005 14:29:41




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
Drawbar horsepower is simply a measure of power at the drawbar. In effect, it is the amount of power that the wheels can put to the ground. Basically, it is determined by measuring the pounds of pull exerted on the test car, and the speed at which it was pulled. Other measures include Gross engine power, which is the amount of power the engine produces before ancillories (water pump, alternator, etc.) are added. Net engine (also flywheel or brake HP), is a measure of power at the flywheel of an engine as shipped or in operating condition (with ancillories). This will always be less than Gross power. PTO power is the most common measure of power on farm tractors today in the North American market, largely due to the Nebraska Tests. It is simply measured at the output shaft, and is always less than Flywheel power due to friction losses through the drive system. Belt HP was another common measure of power in days gone by. On many older tractors, there was no PTO, only a belt pulley. This was an effective measure of power. Again, this was less than flywheel power, and generally less than PTO power due to belt slipage.
There is no formula that I am aware of to convert the drawbar figuer for your H to brake HP, other than to do the various efficiency calculations for the drivetrain. As a rough guess, I would say that brake HP was somewhere in the 35-40 range on the H. I'm sure that spec is familiar to some of the Farmall folks on this board or the IH board. HTH.

Rod

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frankiee

06-17-2005 15:12:26




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to Rod F., 06-17-2005 14:29:41  
Sounds like a good way to rate.
Thanks people



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RAB

06-17-2005 14:13:23




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
It was the most they could get out of the tractor actually dragging/towing/pulling. 100 bhp is of little use for draft implements if the tractor simply spins the wheels and doesn"t go anywhere! (doesn"t do any work - power being force applied, multiplied by distance moved in unit time).
Also in the days when the Nebraska tests started there was much more power lost in the transmission than there is nowadays, so belt pulley power was much nearer flywheel horse power. Nor did those really old tractors run generators, power steering pumps, hydraulics, air con, radios etc.
Drawbar power was simply a practical comparison test between different makes/models of tractor.
You only need to compare same model tests on spade lugs and pneumatics to see there can be a lot of power needed just to move the tractor along on its own.
So the answer to your question is it bears no comparison to the flywheel bhp except that it will be less - and yours is probably less than the sample tested (often huge amounts of ballast were added to improve traction for the tests).
Hope this helps. Regards, RAB

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Galen

06-17-2005 13:02:27




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
Don't know for SURE, but.....engine HP is what the engine puts out, drawbar HP would be the hrsepower actually put to the ground at the rear wheels - i.e. - if your tractor were a team of horses, how many would you have pulling the drawbar. It will usually differ from engine HP due to gearing, drag, and other factors. PTO HP is the HP the PTO will put out to run a given machine. This may, or may not differ from engine HP due to type of PTO (live, trans drive, etc.), gearing and drag. I'm sure some one else will have a different answer.

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Illinois Boy

06-17-2005 12:46:19




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
I ain't touch'n this one...
I've already made a fool of myself enough on this forum.

Ok - I can't resist...
Drawbar HP is how may horses you can tie to your drawbar and drag around a 100' diameter pen in one minute... :)

Really - I have no idea (as you can see!)



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Mike M

06-17-2005 16:27:34




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to Illinois Boy, 06-17-2005 12:46:19  
I like yours better. I was thinking how much HP your drawbar can take before it breaks.LOL

These HP figures are almost useless to use to compare old equipment to the new.Case in point I ran a 1965 JD 110 garden tractor with a 8 HP engine it handled a 38" deck fine. Fast forward to a 1996 LX172 38" deck 14HP needed . I think the horses today are smaller,more like ponies ?



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Mike (WA)

06-17-2005 12:22:21




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:15:44  
I don't know the answer to your question, but it was the subject of a tremendous brouhaha a couple years ago, with the result that some guys never posted again. It'll be interesting to see how the subject will be handled now.



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frankiee

06-17-2005 12:40:31




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to Mike (WA), 06-17-2005 12:22:21  
Oh drat.
Just new to the board and I open a can of worms.
Thanks for the heads up.
I will take the replys with a better insite.
Thanks again.
I will send some rain your way.



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Mike (WA)

06-17-2005 13:00:10




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 Re: What is drawbar horse power? in reply to frankiee, 06-17-2005 12:40:31  
Man, don't send any more rain our way- nobody's even got first cutting off yet- can't string two sunny days together. At least it's been so crummy that no one has even been fooled into cutting.



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