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What's the rule again?

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Allan in NE

05-30-2005 06:48:03

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Mornin' You Guys!

I've never ran into this before, but I remember reading somewhere where alfalfa "eats it's young" and you can't reseed alfalfa?

How does that go again? Does that hold true if the stand is only about 5% alfalfa and the remainder is in grass hay?

Thanks,

Allan

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msb

05-30-2005 20:48:35

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 06:48:03

Its called the aleopathic(sp?) effect.Couldn't find it in Websters, so I may have spelled it wrong.The effect is not limited to alfalfa.Other plant species exhibit the same response.Corn for instance is one, but the new seedling must come in contact to the old residue

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olderguy

05-30-2005 20:20:15

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 06:48:03

We applied Roundup after the third cutting in September then re-seeded in the spring with oats as a cover crop. Worked well for us.

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kyhayman

05-30-2005 19:45:01

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 06:48:03

The leaves contain the toxing so anywhere the leaves shattered you can expect problems. I've been experimenting with different ways to kill it, so far I have had good success with glyphosate spiked with 2,4-D; 2,4-D then irrigate with dairy slurry and harvest the grass hay; mixed results with glyphosate alone (I have a hard time keeping my spray rate under 20 gpa, and chisel plowing doesnt fit my notil).

Some great research out of Wisconsin on short rotations of alfalfa. Went to some sessions on it at the 2003 Alfafla Conference. Seems that at 6 weeks to 3 months it reduces stand life by 2 years, 3-6 month rotation reduced stand life by 1-2 years.

I take 1 year out, maybe even a short year if it is a wet one. Trying some 8 mo rotational alfalfa now, just as an experiment of my own. That is if I get some rain..... ..... ..

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Johnin Ct

05-30-2005 15:19:31

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 06:48:03

My grandfather had a field that once had alfalfa. It ran out, became Timothy. It has been cut and baled every year. We replowed it for the first time since alfalfa (Maybe 50 years) and seeded it with timothy. Guess what, some alfalfa came up, go figure.

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Bill(Wis)

05-30-2005 07:26:59

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 06:48:03

Allan: It is true that alfalfa plants (particularly old alfalfa plants) release toxins into the soil that prevent new alfalfa plants from growing. That, and the presence of soil borne deseases, is why reseeding of alfalfa usually fails. I don't know how thick your stand was originally. If it was never more than 5% you might get away with reseeding. There will be some risk because if it doesn't work it will be a little bit late to plant anything else. Here in Wis we routinely experience winter kill which, if bad enough, will drive us to plow down the field and plant corn. That way we still get a good feed crop for dairy cows and we don't have to worry about whether the alfalfa will be any good. The general recommendation when you see a spotty stand of alfalfa is to kill it and plant a suitable rotational crop for your area. That could include some kind of grass or corn or ?

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Allan in NE

05-30-2005 07:57:38

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Bill(Wis), 05-30-2005 07:26:59

Thanks Bill,

Hmmmm, startin' to get a little 'entangled' as crop options are really limited.

There is enough alfalfa there that it certainly will have an effect. Perhaps fallow it a year and then follow with oats/alfalfa?

Derned ground is just beggin' on it's knees for nitrogen.

Thanks for your advice.

Allan

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Bill(Wis)

05-30-2005 08:57:35

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 07:57:38

My neighbor decided he had too much winter kill in an alfalfa field so he pretty well plastered it with liquid cow manure and plowed it under and then planted corn. His alfalfa was about 20" tall at the time. That's one reason we've all hung onto our moldboard plows (just in case). 5-16's behind a CIH 7120 didn't take long at all and afterward you'd never know there had been alfalfa there. I expect to see a first class field of silage corn there.

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Coloken

05-30-2005 08:45:28

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 07:57:38

If its been in alfalfa, how come its short of nitrogen? Friend plows up alfalfa by using like old grahm hamy with 14 inch sweeps. Goes twice, once each way. Check for broken sweeps about every round. How about Fall wheat this fall? then reseed next year in wheat stubble. Don't leave it too bare this winter to blow.

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Allan in NE

05-30-2005 16:00:52

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Coloken, 05-30-2005 08:45:28

Hi Kenny,

Oooops, talkin' out both sides of my mouth there. The first picture is of the grass hayfield. You can see there is quite a little alfalfa in it now.

The second picture is of the growing wheat, which is really showing signs of nitrogen defecency.

Allan

third party image

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Indydirtfarmer

05-30-2005 07:18:12

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Allan in NE, 05-30-2005 06:48:03

I've always been told that if there's ANY alfalfa growing in a given field, it should not be re-seeded to alfalfa for at least one full year after it has been eradicated (plowed under/burn-down/ect)

If there's even a small bit, it will (at the very least) hurt the new crop's chances of getting a good strong stand.

Dad always taught me to skip TWO YEARS between alfalfa growing and re-seeding....

Your results may vary...

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steveormary

05-30-2005 10:41:15

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to Indydirtfarmer, 05-30-2005 07:18:12

Allan;

Plow it. Sow oats or Sudan or something like that. Cut it for cow feed. Plow it again and plant wheat. Next year after wheat is cut sow it back to alfalfa. Take only 3 cuttings and in the spring go over the alfalfa with spike tooth harrow. Well anyway,that is what I would do.

steveormary

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Larry NE IL

05-30-2005 20:01:03

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to steveormary, 05-30-2005 10:41:15

The only time that you can re-seed alfalfa is the 1st year. As Khayman said, once you cut and drop leaves, the game is over.

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Larry NE IL

05-30-2005 20:00:21

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Re: What's the rule again? in reply to steveormary, 05-30-2005 10:41:15

The only time that you can re-seed alfalfa is the 1st year. As Khayman said, once you cut and drop leaves, the game is over.

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