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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Diesel fuel/trucks

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john in la

05-02-2005 06:45:23




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Well or company news letter came out the other day and had some info I thought you guys may want to read. It deals with the concerns a fuel retailer will have to face in the coming years. You need to remember when reading this that when they say low sulfur they mean the new ultra low diesel and when they say high they mean the low sulfur we are using now. (not the red stuff)

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I feel it is only a matter of time before the high sulfur we use in tractors is no longer available also.

While I am for clean air and water I do feel we as a country are going to price ourselves out of the world market even more. Our new rules that took effect in 2005 knocked our fuel mileage by 1 mpg and now in 2007 we will see another 5% cut in mpg with the new engines. On top of this we need to add the fact that the new Ultra Low Diesel is going to have to cost more per gallon. (someone needs to pay for all that new equipment)

I will let someone else have the soap box now.

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Bill from MA

05-02-2005 17:24:26




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 06:45:23  
From what I have read/seen on TV recently....

A Mercedes E class sedan will get almost 40 mpg
on this new cleaner diesel (european diesel is already cleaner than ours).

The BMW sedans in Europe with diesel engines have better performance than their gas engines ! Just saw this recently on a show about the Chicago Auto show.

Will seriously consider a diesel MB "E"
when the Mrs' Lincoln LS needs to be replaced.

Bill

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David A. Hodson

05-02-2005 16:13:59




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 06:45:23  
several buddies of mine worked for a fuel tanker companies and let me in on this secret, there IS NOT any difference between road and offroad diesel fuel they both come out of the same bulk tank,and same with the gas, if they were loading road fuel they'd puch that code into the computor and then start pumping if it was offroad same thing except the computer would inject the red die and on the gas they would punch in which grade and an additive would be injected but both diesels and then gas came out of same bulk (diesel bulk or gas bulk) tank just thought I'd share that with you David

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Jay (ND)

05-02-2005 16:29:45




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to David A. Hodson, 05-02-2005 16:13:59  
That may be true where you are at, but not everywhere.



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Leland

05-02-2005 22:35:27




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to Jay (ND), 05-02-2005 16:29:45  
But it is true just like all gas is the same in pipe lines it's the additives that they add that make shell different form mobil same stuff same tank go to any large terminal and watch them load.



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john in la

05-03-2005 04:08:03




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to Leland, 05-02-2005 22:35:27  
No it is not always true.

Yes gas is gas and the only differance is the additive they add to it.

And yes some loading racks only have low sulfur diesel (500 ppm) for on and off road use. The only differance is they put red dye in the off road stuff.

BUT..... ..... .
You can still get high sulfur diesel at some locations. High sulfur MUST be dyed red as it can only be used in off road vechicals.

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Coloken

05-02-2005 11:04:58




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 06:45:23  
I'm kinda dumb some times, so can you explain to me how reducing the sulfer content reduces the MPG? I can see higher cost, like cost per mile, but isn't the BTU content the same?



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john in la

05-02-2005 13:03:11




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to Coloken, 05-02-2005 11:04:58  
As Jay said it is not the fuel that is going to kill our mileage it is the engines.

The EPA said we need to reduce emissions so they went to truck/car manufactures and said we want emissions this low by this time. They tried converters in the exhaust to different turbos just like they did years ago with gas engines.

The truck manufactures did what they could with the fuel that was available. In 2005 we had to take a big cut in emissions and that is why we lost 1 mpg on all 2005 trucks. I personally was getting 7.5 mpg out of a 2001 but my new 2005 only gets 6.6 mpg. (same kind of truck; same load)

The truck manufactures then said it is time for the oil companies to step up to the plate and reduce emissions with the fuel so they came up with Ultra Low diesel. This Ultra Low will not reduce mpg but it has got to cost more to pay for all the new refining equipment needed.

In 2007 they will change the engines again to only burn Ultra Low Diesel. (same as cars now only burn unleaded) They expect these new engines to get 5% less fuel mileage.

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Ludwig

05-02-2005 16:06:46




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 13:03:11  
My '83 Mercedes-Benz Diesel car's injection pump is lubricated by the engine oil. So they can keep on taking the sulfer out of the fuel and my car doesn't care a bit, the IP is plenty lubricated. MB has used lubricated IPs since the '60s...

Is it because my car is indirect injected that makes this possible or are the truck engine makers lazy?



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Coloken

05-02-2005 13:31:44




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 13:03:11  
OK, I think I got it now John. Not the fuel that does it, its the emissions standards. If I run my old Case farm tractor I should still get the same "mileage". But got to put in some thing to lubricate it. And hope they don't catch me for stinking up the atmosphere.



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Jay (ND)

05-02-2005 11:49:22




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to Coloken, 05-02-2005 11:04:58  
It's not the fuel but the engines - not only loss of mileage, but extended drains will be shortened as well - I haven't a clue on how using more is better for the enviroment.



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26Red

05-02-2005 07:54:41




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 06:45:23  
Biodiesel will most likely be mandated to help reduce the sulfur content in diesel fuel. A book about biodiesel, said that the US could produce 25% of it's diesel fuel through crops like canola and soybeans without harming domestic food production... So just like ethanol, biodiesel will become a additive to reduce emissions. Minnesota is working on a E-20 mandate. I think biodiesel mandate-10% is already in the works...

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Jay (ND)

05-02-2005 07:01:44




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 Re: Diesel fuel/trucks in reply to john in la, 05-02-2005 06:45:23  
Lubricity is likely going to be a problem - right now, I see only Bio diesel as replacing what has been lost. Also, when the last round of low sulfur came out in 1993, there were pump problems - these were associated mostly with the cooling during refining and refineries have learned from their mistakes. In current low sulfur, 2 gallons of high will contaminate 1000 gallons of low, or so I'm told.

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