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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT- Boiling Water

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RandyR

04-14-2005 01:47:37




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Folks: This is OT, but we know water boils at 212 deg F. What temp would it boil at if subjected to a vaccuum of 18"? Is there a math formula that can be used to figure it out, and if so, what is it? Of course this could apply to any liquid, like gasoline, alcohol. Thanks!




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RandyR

04-15-2005 17:30:30




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  
Thanks everyone. That answers that.
I found that gasoline has a boiling range of 80 deg.F to 412 deg.F.
If it was heated up to 270 deg, on a fuel injection system with enough pressure to keep it from vaporizing, and then injected in to the engine where it is subjected to a vacuum, about 18" for most engines I've seen, wouldn't it turn right into a total vapor?
The heavy fraction actually doesn't vaporize, it stays a mist, burns dirty, and that's how hydrocarbons show up in the exhaust.
Am I a nutbar or what?

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dr.sportster

04-16-2005 09:56:07




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-15-2005 17:30:30  
Yes you are a nutbar,but so was Edison,the greatest inventor ever.Keep on thinking, we need more people who think about physics to invent new carburators and such.



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T_Bone

04-14-2005 14:43:35




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  
Hi Randy,

Water boils at 25.5"hg at 70º while in a vacuum. For a cheap vacuum pump a old "piston" compressor works well upto about 28"hg.

To be totally water free, 29.25"hg vacuum needs to be achived and can take severals hours to complete depending on the substance water content and that requires a fine vacuum, or a high vacuum rated pump, about $350.

T_Bone



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Bernie in MA

04-14-2005 08:18:37




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  
FYI, when maple sap reaches 7* above the boiling point of water it is syrup.



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Rod (NH)

04-14-2005 06:53:32




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  
Hi Randy,

Jeff is correct. It's best to look up such properties in a table made for that purpose. For water, the appropriate table is called the "steam tables". There's a version on-line here. Scroll down and input your pressure in absolute terms and the calculator will tell you what the saturation temperature is at that pressure. The saturation temperature is the same as the boiling point. For example with your 18" vacuum (I am assuming you mean 18" mercury vacuum):

Normal barometric pressure at sea level is 29.9 " mercury absolute or 14.696 psi absolute
18" mercury vacuum = 29.9-18 = 11.9" mercury absolute.
18" mercury vacuum = (11.9/29.9)x14.696 = 5.849 psi absolute

Entering 5.849 in the correct location in the calculator (situation 2) yields 168.97 degrees F.

Therefore water boils at 169 deg F when the pressure is 18" mecury vacuum.

The boiling temperature will change with even small changes in pressure. It's the reason why water will boil easier on a mountain top than at sea level and why it boils easier when the barometric pressure falls because of a storm.

For other materials you are on your own :o).

third party image Rod

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JeffE

04-14-2005 19:36:29




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to Rod (NH), 04-14-2005 06:53:32  
Rod, sounds like you know your stuff....I learnded (I meant to say it this way :-) ) this stuff as a simple farm boy going off to engineering school.....it's amazing how the practical stuff I learned at home helped me relate to the equations and lab lessons I did at school.....best example....I grew up on a dairy farm, but I helped out a neighbor that sold grain bins (built them for a couple of years) and milking equipment - a lot of vacuum milk systems. Went to college (first on either side of my family) and eventually took a lab class about vacuum sytsems....the top "book smart" people in there had no idea what was going on.....not to brag but....., I followed the tubes, turned the right knobs and had it figured out in no time....thanks to my farm training.....I know that several of the "book smart" boys never figured it out after a couple of tries (they were seriously worried about failing the class)....don't want to brag, just want to reinforce that the common sense you learn is more important than what you read in a book. I've learned a lot from reading this forum.....much more than I would from reading books, keep it coming and thanks everyone....for what it's worth this is my two cents.

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gary tomaszewski

04-14-2005 05:48:19




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  
I have several recipies for boiiled water, may post later.



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DavidN

04-14-2005 06:30:30




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to gary tomaszewski, 04-14-2005 05:48:19  
Gary,

If you are referring to recipes using boiling water from a tractor radiator, DON"T BOTHER posting same.... :-(



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JeffE

04-14-2005 05:18:43




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  
There is an equation for boiling point depression but it's ugly and not completely accurate over a wide range of pressures. To calculate it you have to know some of the base properties of the material also - not easy. Most people who want to know this stuff look it up in a reference table for the material they are interested in.



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IHC Red

04-14-2005 03:00:24




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  

...



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IHC Red

04-14-2005 02:38:18




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 Re: OT- Boiling Water in reply to RandyR, 04-14-2005 01:47:37  



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