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Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves??

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PaulG1

04-06-2005 22:24:13

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I suspect my valves are sticking on a Honda 13hp mower as a result of 25% diesel in the gas (ouch my mistake) and i ran about 1 gallon total polluted mix through the engine. It ran fine while burning the polluted mix but about 2 tanks later it all sudden developed a very pronounced miss. The simptoms are a miss at all rpm ranges and a black hue in the exhaust at the miss - almost like it is running with full choke on. If sticky valves resulted is there a way to untick the valve - maybe pour Marvel mystery oil in the spark plug hole so that the cylinder head is full of Marvel and then let is sit for a week?

Also to add to my theory - do you think sticky valves would rendor symptons such as extremely rich condition? The miss is almost non-existent for the first minute then gets very pronounced as the engine warms up. I've been throught the carb 4 times and can find no defects or anything wrong at all - fuel delivery perfect - float valve shuts off nicely.

Thanks for the help - this ones got me stumped - but could it still be the carb?

Paul

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skipper

04-07-2005 16:00:27

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG1, 04-06-2005 22:24:13

Paul
Since it didn't show up till about two tanks later, I suspect the problem may be something different. It almost sounds like the air filter may have became crusted over. Take it off and try running it without it on. A full or crusty air filter would act like a choke was on all the time and it would have black smoke,

Skipper

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RustyFarmall

04-07-2005 09:43:42

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG1, 04-06-2005 22:24:13

This whole thread just doesn't make any sense at all. 25% diesel mixed with gasoline shouldn't hurt anything, other than turning the exhaust sort of a bluish white, like it was burning oil, you really should not have even noticed the difference. Diesel fuel and gasoline mixed will not separate, once mixed it stays mixed, and even at that you only ran 1 gallon through the system, and then refilled with pure gas. Are you sure that the liquid you mixed with the gas was diesel fuel? Was it fresh, or some old stale stuff? Was your gas fresh? I really think there is something else going on here.

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Jonboy

04-07-2005 08:24:15

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG1, 04-06-2005 22:24:13

Just a thought, but you don't suppose the diesel and gas separated in the tank, and the diesel stayed on top and now that the tank has gotten down, it's now sucking the diesel. They're probably right about the carbon buildup being the cause. I'd dump the tank if theres any left and not try to run it through so you don't end up with some damage. Honda 13hp engines are very expensive!.

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skipper

04-07-2005 06:12:41

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG1, 04-06-2005 22:24:13

Have you checked the spark plug or tried to change it? It may be fouled.

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Joe (Wa)

04-06-2005 22:37:12

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG1, 04-06-2005 22:24:13

The diesel won't hurt anything other than not burning completely and producing a lot of carbon. The carbon is probably now pre-igniting the gas when the engine warms up.

I think you might want to try a carbon removing product or just pop the head off and clean it up.

Joe

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Doyle Alley

04-07-2005 08:02:05

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Joe (Wa), 04-06-2005 22:37:12

Go to your local auto parts store (Napa carries it) and look for a product called Sea Foam. This will become your best friend. When used as a preventative, it works as good as Stabil for preserving stored gas. It also keeps carbon from building up on your valves, pistons, rings, and plugs. And, it cleans carbs and injectors. When used as a shock treatment, it will burn off carbon and gunk like nothing else. It has become the treatment of choice for 2-stroke outboard owners down here (outboards have a nasty habit of carbon fouling on the rings). In your case, you'll need to use it as a shock treatment. The shock treatment rate is one can in 3/4 gallon of fuel (fuel/oil mix for 2-strokes). In your small application, I would't mix us a full 3/4 gallon. Just let the tank drain down (run the engine to get it good and hot) until there is only about a cup of fuel and then add about one fluid ounce of Sea Foam (keeping the 1 can to 3/4 gallon ratio). Crank up the motor and let run for a few minutes, then shut it down for 15 minutes. Then crank it up again for a few minutes and shut it down for 15 minutes. Do this until you've drained the tank. It will probably smoke like crazy the first two times you run it. That will be the carbon burning off. When there is no more carbon to burn off, the smoking will stop and your valves will be clean (as well as the other parts in the combustion chamber). By the way, it also works good in diesels.

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Jay (ND)

04-07-2005 10:05:12

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Doyle Alley, 04-07-2005 08:02:05

Another vote for sea foam, however, I would put about 1 to 2 ounces per quart of oil in the crankcase. Also 2 ounces per gallon of gas in the gas tank. Run it for about 30 minutes, change oil.

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PaulG!

04-07-2005 08:48:35

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Doyle Alley, 04-07-2005 08:02:05

Here's what I've done so far:

1. Replace plugs - they were severely carbon fouled - but no change after plug replacement.
2. Disassembled carb 5 times - not a hint of anything wrong - float shuts of nicely - spotless interior - flushed all jets passages.
3. Thoroughly flushed fuel system before carb - found no issues.
4. Checked spark with visual tester and compared to other honda engine - looks identical.

I'm at a loss unless it is a subtle carb thing or valves?

Thanks - keep the ideas coming.

Paul

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dr.sportster

04-07-2005 09:30:36

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG!, 04-07-2005 08:48:35

Dont forget plugs dont just foul the whole cylinder fouls keep cleaning and reinstalling the plugs until it clears up.It may take six times or more to clear up the fouled condition in the cylinder.Or leave plug out go to lunch return and install a new plug.One of the properties of a good diesel fuel is lubricity.I cant see any valve damage here just fouling.Also a real clean looking plug can still be gas fouled.

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Puddly

04-07-2005 08:41:27

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Doyle Alley, 04-07-2005 08:02:05

Just a heads up and something you might want to check.

I had a Honda Generator recently that had developed a leak around (or bypassing) the float needle seat area. In this case the seat area was an intregal section of the carb body and required replacement of the entire carb to rectify.

Hold the carb in normal position with float raised and bowl off. Apply fuel at slight pressure to inlet and look for dribble.

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PaulG1

04-07-2005 08:51:10

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Puddly, 04-07-2005 08:41:27

Thanks - I've done the exact procedure to check the float shutoff - used the fuel pump pressure from the mower to pressurize - it's tight as a drum.

Paul

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Don L C

04-07-2005 11:28:29

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to PaulG1, 04-07-2005 08:51:10

Back in 1955, a friend of mine had a new '55 - 265 cu Chevrolet...comming back across the country late at night....made a pit stop, topped off the tank....noticed engine running near HOT ..morning light saw smoke out the exhust.....stoped at Chev. dealer...result diesel/gas mix....drained tank....filled with gas....result - one of the best running engines he ever had..... Knowing this,I would say no serious damage ....My guess sticking valve or blown head gasket..... good luck...

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edchainsaw

04-07-2005 20:11:50

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Don L C, 04-07-2005 11:28:29

Ive got this 444 massey that I dumped 15gal of diesel in.

ran it for 3 hrs then rembered what I had done, but it was running fine just smoking..

drained out the mix and put new gas in. it ran for about 1/2 a tank then it quit and aint ran since.. ( we think it was the old distributor giving up but aint took time to work on it in5yrs) oh and grampa's 72 chevy ran one whole summer on diesel fuel... no damage that we know of that was in 1985... if you get the mice out of the air intake it will run good yet

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edchainsaw

04-07-2005 20:09:43

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Re: Diesel Damage to gas engine - valves?? in reply to Don L C, 04-07-2005 11:28:29

Ive got this 444 massey that I dumped 15gal of diesel in.

ran it for 3 hrs then rembered what I had done, but it was running fine just smoking..

drained out the mix and put new gas in. it ran for about 1/2 a tank then it quit and aint ran since.. ( we think it was the old distributor giving up but aint took time to work on it in5yrs)

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