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Advice Needed for Hay Baling

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Jason

05-06-1999 22:02:33




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I am interested in getting some equipment to cut, rake, and bale hay on a small scale. I figured that I should look into getting a used square baler since the round ones seem expensive. I will need to be able to transport the equipment to several small hay fields (5-15 acres). I currently have a JD 40T, a MF 250, and a small Kubota to run the equipment.

What should I get for cutting? What types/brands of cheap balers should I look at? I remember baling for an old fellow when I was young and having to work on the knot tying mechanism about every 5 bales or so.

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Mike-M

05-09-1999 16:43:37




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
How 'bout a Ford 532?? I'm thinking of buying one?? Anybody got any horror stories?



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Nellie

05-10-1999 03:30:54




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Mike-M, 05-09-1999 16:43:37  
I've got a Ford 532. It works good. It had low milage on it and was stored inside for years before I got it. NH's are nice but were out of my price range at the time,still are. I only do 2000 bales a year. My only complaint, tires are not wide enough, you get stuck too easy in wet spots. I see the 532's at auctions and they go real cheap $125-350. Another thought, I had a MF 10 for years that served me well to. Somebody has got to buy these different balers, everybody can't buy NH or JD.

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B.C.

05-07-1999 13:44:30




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
Buy good used, stick with NH or JD. Avoid NH 66 wadboard baler unless you just plain like to suffer. Avoid equipment with large amounts of repair welds or conspicuous amounts of irregularly bent metal. Get copies of the manuals, both NH and JD are good about that. Consider getting a bale elevator run by either a small electric motor or gas engine. Also, think about at least one decent haywagon with tires and gear that will stand being towed 20 some miles an hour.

But first, examine your commitment by testing yourself. During the middle of the hottest available day, bang your head against a wall for 5 or 10 minutes. That'll help prepare you for what may well lie ahead.

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Gerald

05-07-1999 16:10:09




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to B.C., 05-07-1999 13:44:30  
Do that head banging in a sauna with clothes on turned up to at least 180... There's no other environment that warm this time of year!!! Add a bunch of dust...

I've had to quit baling and soak down the rack help for an hour in the shade on 98 degree days in Iowa.

There's reason serial hay users want round bales besides getting more hay for their buck. Also they move them without hired hands. Literally big round bales can go from field to critter without human contact, all by machinery.

Gerald

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RKS

05-07-1999 17:24:13




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 Re: Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Gerald, 05-07-1999 16:10:09  
Gerald - you know the old saying "make hay when the sun shines." I've always known the saying, but until 5 years ago when I became insane (you know - the hay thing) I didn't know that the saying is unequivocally true, and why. That is - at least with the square machines. RKS



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Gerald

05-07-1999 18:16:58




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to RKS, 05-07-1999 17:24:13  
I've been trying to make hay in central Iowa for more than ten years. Its rare that there's 3 days of sun without rain in early June. That makes it frustrating to try to make good hay.

But I've found that hay rained on isn't as poor a quality as hay left standing beyond the bud stage. Though that's hard to convince horse owners that rained on hay is good hay.

Selling hay in round bales doesn't make me as much and I have to hire the baling, but cattle feeders aren't as picky.

Gerald

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BUB

05-12-1999 15:12:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Gerald, 05-07-1999 18:16:58  
I THINK HORSE OWNERS ARE NOT SO MUCH WORRIED ABOUT QUALITY OF RAINED ON HAY BUT IS THE HAY DRY /NO DAMP HAY;;; CAUSES MOLD .THIS IS DETRIMENTAL TO THE HORSE'S RESPIRATORY SYSTEM (NOT SERIOUS FOR CATTLE).HORSES CAN GET CHRONIC LUNG INFECTIONS RATHER EASILY/FROM DUST ,MOLD ETC.



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B.C.

05-08-1999 11:26:32




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Gerald, 05-07-1999 18:16:58  
I am married to the horsewoman whom I bale for. I can recommend that yearly activity as a screening test for couples who are considering marriage.

If you're both alive and talking to each other when it's over then you've at least got a chance.

Talk about interactive quality control...



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RKS

05-07-1999 14:19:17




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to B.C., 05-07-1999 13:44:30  
BC - that last paragraph is super. Been there, done that. RKS



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Gerald

05-07-1999 13:16:59




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
First you need customers. Then you need some dry weather when the hay is ripe. Then you need some hay to cut.

The customers will dictate the size bales. A mountain of small bales stacked outside in Iowa has no value at all. Its rotting as you stack it because the humidity is too high. You need customers to take delivery as soon as the hay is on the hay racks.

Now you didn't say WHERE you are and WHAT the hay is. If its grasses, the markets will be limited. If its alfalfa, you need a crimper or mower/conditioner to get the stems and leaves to cure at the same rate. The odds around here in June of curing hay that isn't crimped are about zero. Then you need a way to tell the hay is dry enough for baling. You can learn by feel (and its fairly distinctive) or by measurement with a hay moisture meter or a hay sample, a microwave, and a chemical balance. You weigh a wet sample into a cup, then microwave it until the weight stops dropping. The % lost is the % moisture. 21% is a value to shoot for. Above that and alfalfa heats in the bales, wrecking its food value. Customers watching a thunderstorm approaching will rush you to bale, make them wait. Hay baled too soon is worth nothing. Hay baled after a rain is a lot better than no hay at all. Crimped hay stands rain in the windrow fairly well. The raindrops knock the leaves off uncrimped hay. The value of alfalfa is in the leaf, not the stem.

I've read that replacement of chains and sprockets makes a balky chain driven baler work as good as new. If I get some customers for square bales again I may have to investigate that in my MF-12. Which tends to miss a couple bales per 200, not at the twine splices. All twine is not the same, you may have to select twine to get reliable tieing with a particular baler. No baler is worth having without a detailed adjustments manual. You may be on your own for adjustments if you aren't in a region with lots of hay production because the dealer's mechanics won't have seen enough balers to know anything.

I use a Heston PT-10 mower conditioner. Its beginning to show age but makes a neater windrow than the far more expensive JD 1209 or 1219 though its probably a bit slower at mowing, limited to about 6 mph.

I've been using a four bar IH #5 rake, but I have to pull it slowly to not separate leaf from stem. I've recently bought a New Idea wheel rake. Not class, but I think it will work adequately for me. A wheel rake allows pulling it at 8 mph for the same abuse of the has as the 4 bar does at 3 mph or the 5 or 6 bar parallel bar rake does at 5 mph. The wheel rake being ground driven may add some dust to the hay windrow.

Then you need racks to put the small bales on for hauling to shelter or to the customer's place. Be sure to thoroughly clean the customer's racks to remove the wild mustard seed before you pull them through the field.

But all this is wasted money, time, energy, and hay if you haven't customers first.

Gerald

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old gray farmer

05-07-1999 09:16:42




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
ive had every thing my advice is to it get a new holland baler like a 66 or a 68 ive had a new holland super 68 hayliner square bailer since 1957 iv bailed 50,000 bales with it its missed 3 bales that tells the story right there .



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Bentwood

09-08-2005 07:10:46




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to old gray farmer, 05-07-1999 09:16:42  
Hi I appreciate your views re balers.

I have a NH 78 which we used in the 70s and may start to use again, for small scale haying.

It always worked great, who knows anything about the 78? It looks high volume?



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Amen Brother, another old gray farmer.

05-08-1999 13:28:10




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to old gray farmer, 05-07-1999 09:16:42  
As I noticed all the "advice" given to this poor soul, it was good to see your opinion. I still use my old Super Hayliners. I tried new series balers then went back to a work horse, these "boys" here that can't run them, and give advice to round bale don't know quality hay from Skoal snuff.
My advice to the man would be to get a brand new Sittrex 3 point hitch ground driven hay rake, the small one is about $850, you won't live long enough to tear it up or wear it out. I would get a Super Hayliner 68 New Holland baler, get the manuals for baler, clean service and adjust the knotters, bill hooks and plunger just like the manual explains, before you go to the hay patch. The NH manual will show what worn out bill hooks look like and how to file and adjust them back right.That old baler will cost maybe $150. You can recondition it in , not over a week working part time on it after work, very few parts just elbow grease required. Use the pickup truck you already have and enjoy the hay season.
Some of the advice he has been given, is a bunch of B.S. It's amazing that some of these cowboy hat wearing, diesel pick-up driving, sitting at the co-op bragging & lying sissies can come up with for advice. It's also amazing what dreams they dream while they watch a real man at work.
The biggest problem with small scale farming today is the sissy, yuppie, smart alec, know nothings that jump on here and give advice to questions that weren't asked. Hay went to hell when these boys, yeah I said boys, started baleing hay. Probably the only thing wrong with their old baler, was the operators, and not knowing how to windrow hay. You'll get the feel and smell for hay real quick, after you down it, go back the next morning after dew gets off, and go back checking real regular til when you pick up a handful, wring it up between your hands, shouldn't crack&break, nor should it have moisture wring out of it under pressure. Smell it. You'll soon get the feel, look, and smell of good quality hay, that's the way old gray farmers learned it and you can too.
Soon you'll be experienced enough to smell a mule poot, and tell who baled the hay and what kind it is.

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festus

05-07-1999 06:06:39




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
Opinions are like a**holes everybody has one!
Sorry boys, but the smart money is on New Holland.



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RKS

05-07-1999 11:25:57




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to festus, 05-07-1999 06:06:39  
that's what we did Festus - we put a "lot" of "smart" money in a couple of old pieces of NH junk. And, since you mentioned it, I do have one opinion and one of the other things as well - and I spent a lot of time scratching it in 100 degree weather, while having a lot of fun bailing 9 and missing 6, bailing 12 and missing 5. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe last time I looked, even NH has decided to retire the little chain tinker toys. So - looks like NH's got the same opinion. Wonder if their other thing looks like yours. Now, if this isn't enough to justify you to start calling names, then I'll give you some more. RKS

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festus

05-07-1999 17:01:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to RKS, 05-07-1999 11:25:57  
RKS my post was NOT directed at you it was intended as HUMOR and I am not calling anyone names.The man asked for advice and I gave mine just like you did.



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RKS

05-07-1999 17:20:05




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to festus, 05-07-1999 17:01:05  
understood - thanks for the reply. RKS



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RKS

05-07-1999 04:14:58




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
Did the same thing about 3 years ago. Ran an ad in the local trade paper, "fair price offered for sq baler, rake, sicklebar mower - no junk - all must go to field and work now, otherwise not interested." I have a New Holland belt drive sickle mower, JD side delivery hay rake and an International "shaft-drive" sq baler. The sq baler doesn't miss. I played around with a New Holland baler that a friend bought before mine. As far as I'm concerned, chains belong on bicycles, not balers. I have $3,100 total in all three, baler 15 rake 11 and cutter 5. More and more big operations are going to rounds, so more of these sq balers are available. You probably have a good chance of finding one now that works find, just the owner is getting out of hay or changing to round. Good luck. RKS

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Nelsen

05-07-1999 02:40:06




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 Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Jason, 05-06-1999 22:02:33  
JD or New Holland balers only. 9 foot mower conditioner and a 6 bar side delivery rake.



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BUB

05-07-1999 12:49:35




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 Re: Re: Advice Needed for Hay Baling in reply to Nelsen, 05-07-1999 02:40:06  
I AGREE WITH YOU.HOWEVER,J.D-FIRST CHOICE.....BUT WHATEVER WORKS FOR YOU.



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