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OT-White deer

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George G

03-21-2005 14:04:15




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Their is a herd of about 300 of these white deer that live on an old Army base next to Seneca lake in New York. Way I understand it, it's the only herd of white deer in the world.




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VernonP

03-22-2005 05:42:55




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
We used to raise them when I was a kid here in Kansas. They were White Siberians. Bucks had webed antlers on the ends. A neighbor used to raise them and gave me a buck when I was 6. Dad baught a doe and the next 15 years was history. When the city folk started moving out to the country and let there dogs run loose it became a problem and we released them. If memory serves we had 28 at that time.

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buickanddeere

03-22-2005 00:55:48




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
There is a few herds here too. A bunch around North Bay and couple of herds just North of Lake Huron and Lake Superior. We even have blond tree rats in Exetor Ontario.



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Mark - IN.

03-22-2005 16:51:41




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to buickanddeere, 03-22-2005 00:55:48  
I'm not so sure that's blond anything up there. I think it might be frost.

Some years ago, some of us got picked out of a battalion formation when I was at Ft. Hood, TX. and sent to Germany, just like that. "Pack your duffle bags and come back here". One minute we were in 90+ degree weather in Texas, and a few hours later we were refueling at some Air Force base in Goose Bay with frost on the trees 1/4" thick.

Yep, I'm thinking it just might be frost up there. LOL.

Mark

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buickanddeere

03-22-2005 17:12:41




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Mark - IN., 03-22-2005 16:51:41  
The white certainly isn't bleaching from over exposure to the sun. The white hair is a survival tool using camouflage for cover. It works except during the six weeks of spring/summer/fall. Rabbits, Hares, deer, moose, ground hogs, weasels, game birds, tree rats, you name it. Link Gander, Goose Bay, along the Great Lakes etc being on the coast have high humidity. Bring the temp temps down and everything is frosted.

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Mark - IN.

03-22-2005 17:50:40




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to buickanddeere, 03-22-2005 17:12:41  
I sent that picture around this morning before I went to work. I just opened my Emails and two were from guys that have worked at Fermilab in Batavia, IL. and Argonne Lab in Darien, IL. that say both places have them. Argonne and Fermilab? Enough said, I guess. I've seen buffalo at Fermi, but they weren't white. And I've never been to Argonne, but read a story about a woods around there that has a huge concrete lid/cap buried under a large area that clicks the geiger counter pretty good. That's no joke.

There's a town about 20 miles south of Argonne named Manhatten, and has a town motto that says something about forgeting the past and looking towards the future, somethin like that. When I think of that, what Enrico Fermi and his buddies did at Argonne, it makes me wonder how Manhatten, IL. got the name Manhatten, and if clicks the geiger counter too. Never know about these things.

Nuc testing or storage at that base in NY? Might be something to it.

Mark

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buickanddeere

03-22-2005 22:50:57




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Mark - IN., 03-22-2005 17:50:40  
Nothing to do with a high does of radiation. They would loose the hair rather than get blond. It just a local clan of inbred deer where the blond gene became dominate. As for clicking a geiger counter about 60 to 80 counts per minute (cpm) is normal at sea level. Go anywhere near a coal pile, granite, asphalt, a Coleman Lantern mantle, glazed pottery, antique false teeth, glow in the dark watches made up until the 1960's. That geiger counter will click into the 2000-10,000 easy. Depending on the energy level 17,000 to 23,000 counts equals 1 mili rem or .001 rem. The yearly safe working limit is 5000 mili rem/5 Rem. It takes at least 200 rem to turn your skin red like a sunburn. Infact that’s what happens when everyone gets sunburned and they worry little to nothing about it??? If that radiation from the sun went all the way through your body , you would become ill similar to some types of chemo therapy at 200rem. Aircraft crews get dosed with a couple of rem a year just from having less atmosphere shielding them form the sun. Everything is radioactive to a degree naturally. Milk and bananas are two "hot" items fro instance. Tungsten grinding wheels are as hot as firecracker. We can bring them into the plant but they have to be disposed of as radioactive waste. How much grinding wheel dust has some of the people around this site breathed in? Or check the ground around Elliot Lake, parts of Brazil, Ethiopia etc. The uranium, thorium and radon doses the public up to 7000 mili rem a year. The strange thing is people living in these places. And in a couple of apartment buildings where they found years later the steel re-rod was contaminated with cobalt 60 from an old scrapped x-ray machine. The residents as getting this dose and have a lower cancer rate than the general public nearby that isn't getting dosed??? The most powerful thing I've ever seen radiation do is whip people into a fearful frenzy over something they know little about. TV and the movies are not learning documentaries. As for myself I'm worried about what is dangerous. The next flu virus exposed pto shafts, not wearing protective equipment, not wearing seat belts. Mercury, lead, cadnium, asbestos, organic chemicals and residue from herbicides and pesticides.

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Mark - IN.

03-23-2005 05:55:20




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to buickanddeere, 03-22-2005 22:50:57  
Morning Buick, turns out this morning I'll be out in the car dumper again. Been out in coal handling all week recabling phones in the breaker and crusher houses and conveyor tunnels. Had a 2 PM meeting yesterday with the bosses and showed up looking like Buckwheat from "Our Gang". They had no idea and stood far away from me. No geiger counter though. I know have stopped at the grocery store on the way home before and set off the metel detectors just walking in. Ha Ha Ha Ha. Have a great day. Car dumper, then one of the stacks.

Mark

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buickanddeere

03-23-2005 11:10:03




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Mark - IN., 03-23-2005 05:55:20  
Metal detectors at the entrance of a grocry store? How it so common that those people in charge know so little about what actually happens in the day to day production process? Did the old phone lines get shorted out with dust, moisture and abrasion? Or updating capacity? I lost the stats on how many tons of coal to run say a 750 MW unit full power for a day? Most people have no idea how much coal gets mixed with air then pushed out the stack as vapour & gasses.

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Mark - IN.

03-23-2005 16:51:27




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to buickanddeere, 03-23-2005 11:10:03  
Corrosion. Coal is one of the most corrosive substances I've ever dealt with. Isn't fast, just very thorough. Eats conduit, everything but the brick walls or concrete over time. Also some fire damage from explosions past. They wash down everything every day to keep down on explosions. I've seen this breaker house go twice, and the this plant go once. Sure is potent and corrosive stuff. Never ending maintenance. I'm sure you know how it is. As far as what comes out the stacks, much cleaner today, but anyone who lives by one can see what the acid does to the paint jobs on their cars and stuff over years - little pin holes.

I should get you a picture of the tire grinder-upper this plant has. That sure was a plan. Grind the fleets tires up and mix it in with coal, and save money. Sure didn't work so good. 1/2 hour of burn time of that hybrid mix resulted a lengthy outage to rebuild them burners. Ha Ha Ha Ha. I'm sure someone got fired over that one, or severely promoted.

Mark.

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Roy in UK

03-21-2005 22:32:20




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
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One of the commonest (and inded oldest )names for a pub in England is "The White Hart" ( The White Stag ) So its not unknown here too.



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msb

03-21-2005 20:15:28




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
Some here in central Indiana near where I live. Indians from all over come to see them. American Indians consider them sacred.



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thurlow

03-21-2005 19:52:56




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
Spent a short time at Seneca Army Depot (nuclear and conventional ammunition storage facility) in the '70s; boo-koos of 'em there..... .I assume that's where you're talking about. Don't know if the depot still exists..... ...



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old blue

03-21-2005 18:59:35




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
well these aint true albinos cause these ones dont got pink eyes. any small "herd" of white deer is probily just a group of albinos running together. up around my house there used to be a few albinos and a piebald buck ( half and half). most times guys go after them as trophies then again i know a kid up here that had a small buck in his scope and let it walk so its all personal prefernce. but i sure would hate to ruin that nice coat.

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Jerry D in NC

03-21-2005 18:22:52




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
Damn Charolais Bulls, bet the meat is tender



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RAW in IA

03-21-2005 17:55:53




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
I don'tknow what is considereda herd, but there are several white ones near Independence in NE IA. A friend at work showed me some pictures he tookof them a few weeks ago.



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Mark - IN.

03-21-2005 16:41:57




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
Yeah, was checking a staticy line for someone whom I can't mention, but the conversation said something about moving them from Hanger 18 at Wright Patterson to a holding area up northeast (now I know where), then slowly migrating/integrating them in with herds around the country in the middle of the night while most people would be sleeping. Don't get too close without a gieger counter, I heard they click right off the meter, and so will you. As I understand it, is a minor detail that's being worked out. Seen one jump yet? High, huh? Real real real high, so I overheard.

Mark (LOL)

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greenbeanman in Kansas

03-22-2005 05:00:01




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Mark - IN., 03-21-2005 16:41:57  
Do they jump high enough to pull Santa's sleigh?



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dr.sportster

03-21-2005 15:45:50




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
Chlorine plant next door?



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jackal5

03-21-2005 17:39:57




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to dr.sportster, 03-21-2005 15:45:50  
not chlorine, many many rumors about past radioactivity in the area, used to be an ordinance. I guess a geiger counter may help. They are the only ones I've ever seen and they are only in the depot.



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Farmall Don

03-21-2005 15:45:25




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to George G, 03-21-2005 14:04:15  
There is a wild group that is living around Bohners Lake Wisconsin. Serveral co-workers & business associates I have from the area have pictures. Thanks, I have something to show them now.



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Leland

03-21-2005 22:47:24




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Farmall Don, 03-21-2005 15:45:25  
We have several in ILL but the state will fine the livin he!! out of you for taking anything albino even catfish.



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Pitch

03-22-2005 02:11:13




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Leland , 03-21-2005 22:47:24  
I worked at Seneca Army Depot for 15 years before it got closed down. There is a herd of about 700 deer on 11,000 acres with between 2 and 3 hundred of them being white with the odd piebald thrown in. When the place was constructed in 1941 a few normal deer were inadvertantly contained when the security fences were put up. Some of these deer had a recessive gene that over the years through in breeding became dominant and manifested itself through the white fur. These deer are not albino but a mutant strain. The Army held controlled hunts through out the years and the white ones were only allowed to be taken through a lottery system at a rate of only 5 or 6 per season. Funny how politicians or high Army brass seemed to win those lucky white lotteries every year. Due to the low numbers allowed to be taken there are some monster white bucks in there. The whites tend to be nontypical racks with a lot of them being palmetted.
The Army base closed down in the early '80's and now the the question is what to do with it. One camp wants to preserve it as a game refuge with a focus on maintaining the herd but the claim is maintaining the fence will cost 500,000 per year, something a poverty stricken county can't afford. The other camp wants to develop for industrial use which would compromise the integrity of the fence and the herd would be diluted with fresh genes leading to a demise of the white ones.

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sjh

03-22-2005 20:13:39




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 Re: OT-White deer in reply to Pitch, 03-22-2005 02:11:13  
I will second that. That is the correct story of how they came about. I have seen some monsters driving by there.



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