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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Engine Swaps

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Tom from Ontari

02-28-2005 11:38:42




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I am starting to get real interested in changing engines in tractors and pickups in smaller sizes, like B series Cummins into F-150's or Oliver(Cockshutt up here) type tractors that have a decent frame to stand up to this without having to build a subframe. I see that our friends in the UK are pretty handy at this and I read about their Ford Transit trucks with a 4 cylinder diesel that can carry a ton at 50 miles per hour and still get 40 mpg. Is this true? The last thing I want is a honkin big Dodge or (fill in the blank) with an engine big enough to pull a train. Back to the tractors. There are 1550 and 1650 gassers around that might be worth shoving another engine into and I don't mean big block Chev's, but something that stays close to original horsepower and is reliable in the field. Your thoughts, please.

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jdemaris

03-01-2005 06:44:15




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-28-2005 11:38:42  
It seems to me that the small diesels in full size pickups are kind of useless unless you drive them only on flatland and don't tow anything. My neighbor has a 1960 IH pickup with a 3-53 Detroit. Neat to hear and look at, but gutless and fuel-mileage is not impressive. Also know a guy that put a Deere 219 diesel in his 1/2 ton 1972 Chevy. Again, neat to see, but pretty useless as a truck. Dodge tried it for one year, 1977 or 1978? Full size 1/2 ton pickup with a four or a six cylinder Japanese diesel- maybe Mitsubishi - can't remember for sure. They were not big sellers and it was dropped pretty fast. Ford sold Ranger pickups in the 80s with four cylinder diesels, there are still a few around. I used to have an IH Scout with a factory optional Nissan four-cylinder diesel in it, it got tops arond 25 MPG and was gutless. I also had an Isuzu Trooper with a turbo-diesel, Isuzu engine, four cylinder. That could get almost 30 MPG on the highway, but was gutless. I have five diesel trucks at present, all G.M. 6.2s. They have just enough power to be useful and are very reliable. My 87 Suburban just turned 500,000 miles and the engine has never been torn down. It can get 19 MPG tops, and averages around 14. My 82 1/2 tons 4WD Chevy pickup has gotten 24 MPG on the highway with the wind at my back and averages 17 MPG. My neighbor has a new Dodge with the high-output Cummins 5.9 and 4WD. Say's he's averaging 20 MPG with high-tread snow tires front and back. Not sure if I believe it, but that sounds incredible. Moot point for me, I would never consider investing $30,000 into a vehicle, drive in the road salt for 10 years, and watch it fall apart. I've got a 65 Chevelle SS I've been considering pulling the 327 out of it, and putting in a 6.2 turbo-diesel and 700R4 trans. It ought to have good power and still get close to 30 MPG - but not sure if I'll ever get around to it. It would be nice to ge able to take long trips with it and get better then the 14 MPG it gets now on the highway.

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Mike (WA)

03-02-2005 08:23:22




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to jdemaris, 03-01-2005 06:44:15  
PLEASE, PLEASE do not ruin a 67 SS with a diesel engine. Mike M is right- sell the Chibbie and get some fairly mundane 4 door for your diesel swap. They just ain't makin' any more of those SS's.



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jdemaris

03-02-2005 09:18:25




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Mike (WA), 03-02-2005 08:23:22  
It's a 65, not 67. I wouldn't do the swap unless it can be done without any cutting. I'd save all the original parts, but it's likely I'll never get around to it. I'd like to have the car so I can drive longer trips and not be worrying about the expense of gas. 6.2 (379 cubic inch) turbo diesel won't have the power of the 327 - 300 horse, but it'll still have enough power to be fun to drive - especially with the low first gear the 700R4 trans. has. Seems it ought to get close to 30 MPG cruising since I can get 24 MPG in my 6.2 pickup. The stock 327 gets, at best 14 on the highway if I baby it. I've also got a 66 Belair with a 283 two-barrel and two-speed Powerglide trans. and it can squeeze 16 MPG on a good day with a wind at my back. Funny thing is, my 64 Chevelle with a 283, Muncie 4 speed, crane cam, 10-1 pistons, Weiand two-plane intake, headers, Holley 650 doublepumper carb., etc. can get close to 18 if babied on the highway. I've also got a 64 Riviera with the 465 Wildcat engine (425 cubes) that is a real gas hog. That is another prospective candidate for the diesel, but, like I said, a lot of my plans don't get past my head. It would be fun, though, to have one of my 60s era cars that I could tow a boat with, and/or take long trips with without the poor mileage.

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Mike M

03-01-2005 10:47:31




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to jdemaris, 03-01-2005 06:44:15  
You could sell that 65 chevelle and have enough money to go buy one of those cummins dodges. I had a complete opposite experience with my 1983 Chevy with a 6.2 diesel than you had. Biggest piece of junk made and it broke me from ever wanting another GM product again.



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jdemaris

03-02-2005 09:49:59




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Mike M, 03-01-2005 10:47:31  
I've heard horror stories with all the diesels. I don't know what to make of them except for what I've actally seen myself. During the late 70s, first Dodge came out in 78 with the 243 cubic inch, 103 horse 6 cylinder diesel in their half-ton pickups (Jap I think). Also in 78, G.M. introduced their 5.7 liter, 350 cube diesel in light pickups. It was an absolute piece of crap. They built it from the 350 Oldsmobile gas engine, and there was no fixing it. I was a Deere mechanic at the time, but found myself doing all the diesel repairs for a nearby Chevy dealer since they were clueless on diesel engines. G.M. got a bad reputation along with a class-action lawsuit over that deal. So, G.M. then hired Detroit Diesel to design a new engine from the ground up, and the as a result, the 6.2 came out in 82. Great engine, not very powerful, but very reliable if used right. United States military has been using them for years in pickups and Hummers (along with the later 6.5s). Almost all the problems I've seen with them relate to overheating, ether use, bad glow plugs, etc. Using the wrong exhast system can cause the cylinder heads to overheat and crack when used hard. Ether will also crack the heads. I saw many engines get removed just because the glow plugs didn't work right. Today, if you go to NAPA and order mufflers, they will sell you the wrong ones and they will cause overheating. Now, the glowplugs will not burn out like the old ones did. The new AC-Delcos, are reboxed and actually made by Beru and have circuit limiters in them. They work great. The mechanical injected 6.5s were good engines also, but they are rare except in for military use. When the EPA got involved, and put new emmissions restrictions on diesels, trouble came. Chevy 6.5s used Stanadyne Co. to come up with electroncially controlled pumps and they had high failure rates. G.M. finally gave up, and started using Japanese V-8s made by Isuzu (the Powermax). U.S. military still has the mechanically injected setups - no EPA regs. on the battlefields. I heard stories about the later Dodge diesels and Ford IH, but I think most are hype. The Dodge Cummins is the only medium-duty diesel on the pickup market - all the others are "light-duty." I drove a new Cummins powered Dodge when they first came out. Every time I stomped on the gas pedal (diesel pedal?), the doors sprung open. The cab twisted and couldn't take the torque. Dodge had transmissons breaking left and right on the early trucks, but no engine problems that I know off. Good engine and junk truck equals ?? I'm still driving my 69 W200 Power Wagon, been a piece of junk ever since I bought it in 1975. But, it's a real stump puller with the 4.88 gears. I've got an 85 Ford 6.9 diesel F250, 83 diesel 6.2 Blazer, 85 diesel 6.2 Blazer, 86 diesel 6.2 Blazer, 87 diesel 6.2 Suburban, 90 diesel 6.2 Suburban, and an 82 diesel 6.2 1/2 ton pickup. Also have an 81 Chevette Isuzu powered diesel car, and two 91 Volkswagen diesel Jettas. I've never had a serious problems with any of the engines - but the worst of the bunch is that little Isuzu in the Chevette with the Diesel Kiki injection system. Now the rest? With the G.M. stuff, there's always something falling apart, but they drive nice and have been real work-horses.

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mud

02-28-2005 14:59:05




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-28-2005 11:38:42  
Looks like the 1850 Oliver is one of the best candidates for a swap with that nice Cummins industrial engine. Shep/Va. has done several with very good success.

The publication 'Farm Show' has had full magazines dedicated to 'repowers'.
Some guy put a Deere combine engine in his 3/4 ton Chevy truck.

There is a guy here that posts sometimes. He has a Chevy with a Deutz in it. Bought it that way, but has heater woes!

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champspa

02-28-2005 14:47:37




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-28-2005 11:38:42  
Vadave already does this . do a search and maybe you can get some info



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RickB

02-28-2005 14:44:58




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-28-2005 11:38:42  

Guess Dick2 doesn't know his Olvers too well. Tom, you need to go to the Oliver/Cockshutt board here and hook up with ShepVa. He has done a couple of Cummins conversions and is pretty well versed on that topic. A search there will provide a start.



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Dick2

02-28-2005 14:19:05




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Tom from Ontario, 02-28-2005 11:38:42  
How much more weight is going to be added to the front end on an engine swap? My brother and his buddy tied up our shop for several weeks one winter while they took a 6-cylinder engine out of a Studebaker pickup and put in a big V-8. Acceleration was good - but they couldn't steer the danm thing because it was so front end heavy! His buddy drove it home and parked it.

Same would hold true for tractors.

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RN

02-28-2005 18:03:34




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 Re: Engine Swaps in reply to Dick2, 02-28-2005 14:19:05  
And front weights and loaders don't affect steering? Check Archives on Oliver swaps- seem to be 5.9 Cummings replacing Detroit 2stokes (4-71s)? Weight difference might be 3-400lbs, doubt if much more. RN.



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