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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Trailer Brake Gurus out here?

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L.C.Grey

02-13-2005 08:17:29




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I recently rigged my new hauler for electric brakes for my dual tandem. I'm not getting much braking effort out of the trailer and am trying to figure out where to focus my efforts rather than blindly start a seach and destroy mission form end to end.

I know the brakes on the trailer work. When it went to pick it up, the truck I'd borrowed, wasn't a match with the trailer wiring and when plugged in the trailer was locked down tight enough the truck wouldn't budge it.

Being the cheapskate I am, my brake controller is one I salvaged out of a dually from a friends salvage yard. Its a Valley electronic type and shows a '96 mfg date. It does show a green check light when the trailer is plugged in and I do have some trailer brake response. Its installed level, and I've adjusted all three (leveler, "hard" and "soft") of the possible controls with no decernable change in function.

All the wiring is new and heavy guage from front to back. I checked the wiring in the plugs and the trailer ground goes straight to the brakes. I pulled a good ground into my plug on the truck.

I'm trying to avoid just throwing the $$$ at it, but I'm wondering if the brake controller might not have the power to operate the big brakes of the dual tandem. Is there a lot of difference in different controllers ability to energize the magnets? My pickup has a big Teknosha electronic controller, and when not properly adjusted will make a tandem trailer (with one braking axle)hop, skip, jump and chunk you on the dash board. Grossing 30K now, I'd like to have something capable of that on this rig too.

Another side question on this. Nowadays everythings done with electronic controllers rather than the hydraulic models I grew up on. Has anyone ever seen a electric brake controller that works from air? I know they have vacuum over hydraulic, air over hydraulic and now electric over hydraulic systems. Is there such a thing as an air over electric system? That would be ideal for me, but I've never seen one.

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Wi Craig

02-13-2005 18:11:50




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
Ground always seems to be a problem.



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Bob in Ohio

02-13-2005 18:05:23




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
Some brake controllers will only handle 4 or 6 brakes.Other will take 8,I had the same problem.I disconnected 2 brakes and the rest of the brakes worked I will be changing controllers before using again.



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BFO

02-13-2005 16:19:42




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
First of all check the ground, then adjut the brakes properly. The brake controller should be the largest you can get, Like a Tekonsha Prodigy.



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marlowe

02-13-2005 10:37:26




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
make sure ALL wire is 12 or better 10 is best for 4 or more brakes have 6 brake trailer that were week went to 8 wire and will lock all 8 up



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Leon Hill

02-16-2005 15:22:11




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 TO-30 oil to top end from Sept. conversation in reply to marlowe, 02-13-2005 10:37:26  
Finally found why oil would not get to the top end of my TO-30. It has no cam bearings, but the rear main bearing had the top bearing in the bottom and the bottom bearing in the top.They are made differant with holes in different places. The holes in the bearings would not let oil to the main bearing or the top end as the were. It has much oil now. Thanks
H.Leon Hill from Queen City, Texas



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kk1744

02-13-2005 10:10:46




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
First--separate the truck from the trailer---to determine where problem lies

Second--take a 12 volt battery--hook ground post to good clean spot on trailer and using a jumper wire..activate the brake post on your plug..

you should hear brakes on trailer activate--another check to perform is jack up one axle of trailer and when activating brake connection..have someone try to turn wheel..should turn only a few inches and then lock

If it does...then problem is/should be in truck

Check grounding wire on truck--make sure it goes from frame to plug and someone is not trying to ground via truck connections...

Your green lite indicates that the controller is working but it may not be rated good enough for your trailer brake size and number of axles...Most sold now are good for at least 4 brakes...older ones sometimes were not..

You also can check the controller and brake circuit by using a test lite at rear nad having someone step on brakes

Like others have said--GROUND is a big problem, but when using unknowns (new trailer and used controller) your problem could lie almost anywhere

We do nothing but trailers and find all sorts of problems..and have learned take nothing for granted--check each portion of brake system out to identify culprit---

e-mail me if I can help

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Leroy

02-13-2005 14:18:10




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to kk1744, 02-13-2005 10:10:46  
I have a question. Are trailer brakes voltage sensitive? Can brakes made when the trucks had a 6 volt system be used with 12 volt or can a newer trailer with 12 volt brakes be used behind an older truck with a 6 volt battery?



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Indydirtfarmer

02-13-2005 09:39:07




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
I've always subscribed to the theory that 90% of trailer electric troubles are ground related. Recently I was having brake problems simular to what you described. T-Bone and a couple others gave me some specifics to look for, and to make a long story short, it WAS ground related. (A couple problems actually)



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Timothy Phipps

02-13-2005 08:58:14




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
I have to agree with T_Bone. I had the same problem on an old pickup. I had cheep charleyed it and only used 12 ga wire on the ground- Had not much brakes on the trailer. Changed to 10 guage wire, now it works correctly. Just remember, you may have enough ground to work the lights, but that dosen't mean that there is enough capasity to work the brakes too.
good luck, Tim in OR



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T_Bone

02-13-2005 08:45:15




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
Hi LCG,

Two words

Bad ground!

T_Bone



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RustyFarmall

02-13-2005 08:39:32




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:17:29  
The tekonsha you are using is most likely similar to the one I am using. These controllers use what is called a ramp-up effect, meaning that when you first step on the brake pedal only a small amount of electricity is sent to the trailer, and if that small amount is all that is needed, that is all it gets. If more is needed, you will be holding the pedal down longer, and the longer you hold it down, even more juice will be sent to the trailer, increasing the braking effect. In other words, the more you need, the more you will get.

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L.C.Grey

02-13-2005 08:47:34




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to RustyFarmall, 02-13-2005 08:39:32  
The one I have works on a "pendelum" system. The controler measures the inertia and pitch of the tow vehicle. if the trailers pushing on you it pitches the vehicle forward and increases the power to the trailer brakes. if the trailer brakes are dragging you too much it will pitch the tow vehicle backwards lessening the power output. Thats why its critcal to monunt the controller level whenever possible and to have the leveling control adjusted propperly.

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John *.?-!.* cub owner

02-14-2005 18:45:55




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:47:34  
Do you get good braking when you operate the manual lever on it? If so you probably have a problem in the controler, either adjustment or malfunction. If it does apply full brakes manually get a voltmeter and and with msanual control activated, read the voltage on the truck wiring. If you have 12 volts, move to trailer side of wiring. As has been stated earlier, make sure you have a good ground. Use the one in the plug, connect it to bothe the trailer side and the truck side, don't depend on getting a ground through the hitch.

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L.C.Grey

02-15-2005 16:52:40




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to John *.?-!.* cub owner, 02-14-2005 18:45:55  
When I use the manual slide to apply the brakes it has braking power but very weak.

I'ts either a ground issue, a bad controller or the controller just wasn't designed with high enough output for my application. I know a lot of folks hollered ground, and do I hear them, but I'm pretty confident of two things, one; that I have a good ground, and two; the trailer brakes are functional enough that a dually couldn't untrack the trailer from its parking spot when I picked it up. The more I think it over the more I think its time to spring for the ol' Voyager XP controller and be done with it.

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RZ(WA)

02-13-2005 13:27:34




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 Re: Trailer Brake Gurus out here? in reply to L.C.Grey, 02-13-2005 08:47:34  
Yep, When I had a similar problem and drove 65 miles to have the controller and wiring checked out. As LC said the leveling control must be adjusted properly and the control box must be as close to level as can be. I thought I had everything set correctly and looking pretty, the guy from the RV place spent two minues (if that), re-adjusted the control box, reset the gain, took a quick look at the wiring and connections and pronounced it good to go. And, yes, it was a little ego deflating. Oh well, I at least had everything somewhat correct. DO triple-check the ground connections though, and maybe have more than one ground.

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