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PTO Power Generator

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Mike Larson

01-09-2005 08:40:44

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Thanks for the replys to me earlier post. I think my next question may have gotten lost in the last poat. Can anyone send me a pic of their set-up for a PTO driven generator? Is it on a trailer, a 3pt. platform, other? Who sells/makes a good one? Thanks for your help.

Mike L.
Ohio

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Kendall

01-12-2005 06:11:00

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to Mike Larson, 01-09-2005 08:40:44

Go to google.com and do a search on " pto generator " and you will be overwhelmed with choices and info.

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Mike M

01-10-2005 05:56:14

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to Mike Larson, 01-09-2005 08:40:44

I didn't get a clear picture of what you wanted in the first post,and I haven't been following this lately as I have been busy breaking the law since last Wed. night at 9:00 pm my power went out.Finally got it back on Sun. at 3:00 pm. Dad has a pto unit mounted on a trailer it is kind of large has a cord holder on it so you can wind them up and store them,and a roof over it to keep the weather off of the generator unit. This thing is too large and always in the way when not in use. I am hearing more about 3pt. mounted ones and this may be good and compact for storage,but I have not seen one yet and I wonder how they keep the pto in line and not at a steep angle ?

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buickanddeere

01-09-2005 16:04:31

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fine except welder plug backfeed PTO Power Genera in reply to Mike Larson, 01-09-2005 08:40:44

Generally figure 2HP per KW for starting reserve on motors and not beating the engine to an early death running at steady 100% power. If running just resistance loads you can squeeze about 1KW for every 1.5HP driving the generator in a pinch. There is three small generators sitting in my shed that used to have grand plans. Turns out the price of rigging a 1800 or 3600rpm drive, connections etc. It was cheaper to purchase a complete running generator. Sigh..... .....As for back feeding any receptacle and worse yet feeding 120V and 240V loads from a three prong back fed receptacle. Hang around a generator sales and repair shop after outages. After you get past the excuses, people who know better still make mistakes. Smoked the generator etc after trying to supply the neighbours or got paralleled out of phase with the utility. As for safety, I don't care for these Safety Nazis who enjoy the feeling and power of bossing around the stupid masses who don't realise they need help. As for the laws of physics, have to obey them so..... .. Running current in the ground wire will raise the potential of the ground system and everything tied to it to above true ground potential. Now livestock will be getting tingle voltage shocks off everything that's grounded and some electronics equipment may fail. The neutral, now live because it's bonded to that elevated ground which is energised by the generator due to voltage drop. Trust me. So now this neutral which IS NOT SWITCHED by the service main breaker is now brought potential to the center tap point of the service transformer secondary. That means you are supplying a voltage back out the high voltage lines to the grid where some smuck is working on broken wires. How much voltage depends on a bunch of factors. How lucky do you feel? In brief back feeding that receptacle is like smoking. Some it never seems to never bother, sometimes it's the bystanders that get hurt and then there is the damage being done that will catch up to everyone if it continues long enough.

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Mike M

01-10-2005 05:36:32

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Re: fine except welder plug backfeed PTO Power Ge in reply to buickanddeere, 01-09-2005 16:04:31

Very hard for me to understand this,but my electric company is doing the same thing all the time as the neutral is hooked to the ground stake coming from their lines ???

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buickanddeere

01-10-2005 08:13:49

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Re: fine except welder plug backfeed PTO Power Ge in reply to Mike M, 01-10-2005 05:36:32

It's a bunch of complex math. Trust me, took weeks for myself to understand. I know time and money is tight. Please just don't backfeed a receptacle, particularly a three prong and try using 120V& 240V power

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surefire

01-10-2005 08:33:46

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Re: fine except welder plug backfeed PTO Power Ge in reply to buickanddeere, 01-10-2005 08:13:49

Nobody understands the part about KILLING the linemen at the power company.

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Mike M

01-10-2005 09:40:40

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Re: fine except welder plug backfeed PTO Power Ge in reply to surefire, 01-10-2005 08:33:46

I don't want to kill a lineman,but I would like to do some backfeeding on the one who sends out the bills.

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buickanddeere

01-10-2005 18:21:07

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Re: fine except welder plug backfeed PTO Power Ge in reply to Mike M, 01-10-2005 09:40:40

The utility grounds that neutral along the road about every 10 pole and at every hydro service because it's so important for safety/reliability to keep it's potential as close as possible to true earth. Reason #2 as it cuts utility power transmission line losses. Linemen can get shocked by lines that should be dead even when the supply end is open. Current back through the center tap of the transformer secondary induces a voltage on the primary windings back to the utility. Believe it. 2.0V on the secondary is 120V on the primary if 7.2KV to 120/240v. Generally the closer the linesman is to your dangerous backfeed the more likely he is going to find high voltage. Any minor and otherwise unseen/unknown faults in your service makes it more likely. Mike M why are you proud of breaking the law and endangering people with something they don't fully understand? Install a proper transfer switch. They are cheaper than a lawyer and easier/safer for anyone to use. There are some people the more you explain something. They feel threatened and the tighter they stick to how they partly understand the subject or stay loyal to what they heard their Pappy say on the topic? I'm never right 100% of the time, doubt you are too. Electrical Code rules are uncommon among government regulations. They actually are there for yours and my safety along with equipment reliability. Much to even my surprise, they make sense when explained how and why. There is a reason why three prong receptacles, GFI plugs, four wire stove/dryer plugs etc etc etc have been regulated into being. The old ways may have "worked" but they were not safe. As expensive as electricity is. It's still cheaper and cleaner than running your own powerplant or an engine with line shafts to operate all the machinery. My relatives and people at parties b*tch at me about the price of power. I have about three different answers. #1 Sometime when I'm having coffee with the president of the company I'll ask him he can do for you. #2 Doesn't bother me, like most employees we get a discount. #3 I just take some electricity home in my lunch box to save on power bills.

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jdemaris

01-09-2005 09:54:18

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to Mike Larson, 01-09-2005 08:40:44

Most of the new ones I've seen come standard without a trailer. A trailer can be added to the cost and some of the PTO models come with a three point hitch hookup. I know several local farmers that absolutely DO NOT want their's on trailers - that because once the unit IS on a trailer, too many people want to borrow it. I like having mine on a trailer for several reasons. Comes in handy for bringing power out into the middle of a field or the woods for welding or whatever. Dont' buy an old unit that uses brushes. Other than that, Winpower, Generac, etc. all seem to be fine. A few older models had trouble with windings coming apart when over-revved, but other than that I haven't seen, or heard of, any problems. There are many websites that offer information. For one, try: Link

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Mike Larson

01-09-2005 10:29:14

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to jdemaris, 01-09-2005 09:54:18

Thanks!!!!! !!! That site was very helpful. Next question..... ..I have a New Holland TC29 which is about 4 years old. (200 hours) I use it for lawn mowing and yard work. I live on about 4 ac. Just a house and a hobby shop. (24X40) Does it make sense to buy a PTO unit and use my tractor for the ocassional outage or should I buy a stand alone unit? I am thinking I want to get something in the 7,000-12,000 watt range. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Mike L.
Ohio

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RAB

01-09-2005 14:38:42

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to Mike Larson, 01-09-2005 10:29:14

As stated elsewhere, generators are heavy. That can be a good reason for fitting onto the 3 point hitch, if you need mobility.
In the UK voltage is 240, so the problems with a double plug-ended leads are even more dangerous. If you are using it mobile, I would always use powerbreaker circuits for safety.
Permanent magnet frame generators (armature windings) generally have more back up starting power for electric motor starting, than rotating field machines, if that is important.
Regards, RAB

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jdemaris

01-09-2005 12:17:48

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to Mike Larson, 01-09-2005 10:29:14

Well, I'll give you my thoughts for what they are worth. I own half a dozen small portable generators ranging from 750 watts up to 6000 watts. The problem, with all of them, is they spend 99% percent of their lives sitting around. Seems when the rare occasion comes when I want to use one, I have some sort of trouble. I suspect the best unit to have around if it rarely gets used is a propane fueled unit. And, it all depends on what you want to do with the generator and how long. One big reason why I like having the PTO generator is that I always have 1000 gallons of diesel fuel (heating oil) on hand - so I could make power for a long time if ever needed. Gas, on the other hand, is hard to store for long. And, often when the power goes out, you cannot go downtown and buy gas. Before someone calls me "stupid", I'm very careful about draining gasoline, and/or using a stabilier in it. Now, the nice thing about the PTO generator is there is no separate engine to worry about getting started. Unlike my stand-alone generators, my tractors get run frequently. One case in point. We had a power outage here last month for two days. It went out 2 in the morning but I didn't worry about it until morning since we have wood heat. Morning comes, it's -18 degrees F and my PTO generator is hooked to my IH diesel tractor which I would have little chance of starting with plugging in the block heater. So . . . I pull out my lightweight Coleman 1000 generator that only weights 22 pounds and is virtually brand new. I wanted to use it to plug my tractor's block heater into. It's been used maybe two hours since I bought it maybe four years ago. Well, it started right up after I put gas in it - and then died. Haven't got it running since. I then took out my Coleman 1800 watt and proceeded to use IT with fresh gas. It ran for 10 minutes and died. Some sort of no-fuel situation. Maybe the mice chewed something up inside of it. So . . . , on to my Homelite 5000 watt generator. This thing is heavy and I had a hard time dragging it out and near to my tractor. Although this is my oldest generator, it started right up and ran fine. Got my diesel tractor going, and then got the PTO unit going. But, what a comedy of mishaps. Yeah, I'm sure there are people out there that have never had such problems - what can I say? I usually don't, but when it rains, it pours.
Anybody want to buy a cheap, almost new Coleman 1000 watt generator? I called them up an can't even get any repair information on it. It's only been run two hours since new. Now, it will start, but only idle, and no ouput. The throttle is controlled by a microprocessor which Coleman has no information on.

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buickanddeere

01-10-2005 19:39:58

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to jdemaris, 01-09-2005 12:17:48

We used to have a carb gumming problem with engines in storage here too. Best solution we found was shut of the fuel supply off while the engine is running and run the carb dry.

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leland

01-09-2005 12:27:45

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to jdemaris, 01-09-2005 12:17:48

I might be interested how far will I have to ship it I live in cent IL.

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jdemaris

01-09-2005 12:56:25

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to leland, 01-09-2005 12:27:45

I'm in central New York State, Zip 13820. The unit weighs 22 lbs., I paid $450 for it, and I want $100. It has a very quiet two-stroke engine, and the design of it is a little unconventional. Idea is, it only idles until there is a demand for power. It then only revs. high enough to meet the output. It is rated a 1000 watts surge, or 850 full time, and also has a 12 volt, 10 amp battery charger hook-up. Model PM0301010
serial # HH0360184 In all honesty, you could probably do a lot better buying one of those Chinese units new that are always for sale on Ebay. They usually go for around $150 new and another $50 for shipping. When I bought this one, I thought I'd have the Coleman company backing it up. I like much of their camping equipment. As far as this generator goes, Coleman was useless. I couldn't even get a schenmatic from them, or a manual. I bought it just to keep in the back of my Suburban when I take trips to very cold areas. Figured it'd be nice to run the engine block heater, if necessary.

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leland

01-09-2005 13:07:03

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to jdemaris, 01-09-2005 12:56:25

I see your point on cost go to garden tractor forum and ask JT he lives by me and has a large small engine shop and he probley tell what is wrong with your unit here might be a simple fix. here in spfld there is nothing that he has not saw .

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Mike Larson

01-09-2005 13:05:30

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Re: PTO Power Generator in reply to jdemaris, 01-09-2005 12:56:25

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree.

Mike L.

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