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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT--the Real Deal on Insurance!

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Brian in NY

01-03-2005 07:20:53




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Well I just read a long post from a gentleman who experienced a 60% premium increase from the prior year and felt that since I am in the insurance industry I should try to set the record straight. I understand insurance in general can be very confusing and therefore it can really make people's blood boil. I just want to help ease some of that confusion.

A couple doses of reality:

1) In most states (not sure about MO or WI for example) there is a department of insurance which strictly governs the percentage premium increase an insurer can take per calender year. Each company applies to the state to take an increase and has to show that they cannot make a profit at current premium levels in order to be granted the ability to increase premiums. If you feel your premium increase is not justified, contact your state's Dept of Insurance to find out if your company is operating above board. There are, however many other factors that can drive up premiums. Claims, adding more coverage, losing multi policy discounts, etc are very common, but also bear in mind that re-valuation of homes by insurance companies is very much the rage right now. So if you had your home insured for $100,000.00 last year, and they do an updated valuation of your property and the cost to rebuild it (including clean up, excavation, permits, etc etc) is now $160,000.00....you are going to see an increase because in the event of a total loss, it is going to cost the insurance company a LOT more $ to make you whole than you thought. Very simply, increase in coverage=increase in premium.
A 60% increase is unheard of however...and I would want a thorough look at what changed as there MUST be something.

2) It is ABSOLUTELY TRUE that auto and home insureres have very small profit margins per policy. Think of it. If your homeowners costs you $500 per year, how many years would you have to pay into that for the insurance company to make any money if you had one $15000.00 loss (doesn't take much damage to get to $15000.00).
THIRTY YEARS....and that is not counting what it costs them to pay their people, maintain offices, etc. The insurance companies make their money by the law of large numbers. They invest the premium money they take in and that is how they make money. The general rule of thumb is that if an insurance company can keep 4 cents of each dollar of premium they bring in, they can be profitable. It's really not big $, but when there are millions of policies in force, the numbers add up. When there is a big catastrophe loss (hurricane, floods, etc) the insurance company pays out VASTLY larger percentages than they would every predict paying. And thus they have to spread that cost out....Insurance is sharing risk rather than absorbing the risk yourself.

3) You might not think your company does business in Florida for example, but almost every company has "sister" or "offshoot" companies that write in other states under a different name. This is usually due to varying state regulations and the parent company's desire to establish "fire-walls" in the event that a company in one state goes sour,the effect on the parent company would be minimized.

4) I would never accept a substantial premium increase without a) discusssing it with your agent to make sure it is accurate b) shopping around.

Agents sometimes are just too busy to put a lot of time into trying to find a way to reduce your premium. It is afterall taking $ out of their pockets so you can imagine the motivation is not too high. The best thing to do is be very persistent. If you are dealing with a small town agency they may think they have you by the nose, but with today's technology (email, fax, etc) it can be quite convenient to deal with another agent in another town.

If anyone has specific questions about their insurance, let me know....I would be happy to try to give you some advice....FREE OF CHARGE.

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txblu

01-04-2005 05:15:01




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 07:20:53  
I have been with my state farm agent for 25 years. I see a lot of commercials about saving money on ins from different sources, but the few claims I have filed have been professionally managed by this agent who happens to also be a friend. Additionally, if I need to change coverage it's a personal phone call or "stop by" visit.

The brighter side: Since I have been with this company so long, not only do I get tremendous discounts annually, my wife was just notified that she would NEVER be cancelled on her auto policy. (Guess I have one of those coming too.)

Mark

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Kevin (FL)

01-03-2005 21:25:52




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 07:20:53  
You want to see the real deal on insurance companies?? Come to Florida and watch how they're handling the hurricane claims. We've paid premiums for almost 10 years, never filed a claim. Hurricane Ivan sent a tree through my son's bedroom, tore up the roof and flooded three rooms with rain water. Didn't get an adjuster for two months and we still haven't heard back from the adjuster. Last week we received a policy cancellation notice and haven't gotten the first check for the damages. And I'm just one of thousands.....

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KEG

01-03-2005 18:32:15




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 07:20:53  
Brian,
Thanks for the honest info about the insurance industry. And thanks for NOT blaming it all on lawyers. While there are a few bad instances (as in any industry), lawyers have become an easy target for insurance companies to rally behind.

But ask yourself, If I am injured by a NEGLIGENT doctor and can"t walk the rest of my life (or worse yet, am killed) would I want my family to be limited to $250,000 MAX settlement. This is what the insurance industry wants and you, the little guy, will take it in the shorts if you"re the one injured.

The recent increase in rates is more the result of bad insurance industry investments and bad policy writing. NOT litigation, which hasn"t increased much over the past 20 years.

BTW, the McDonalds coffee case was actually a good case if you read the details. But it sure makes easy pickins when some insurance company does a sound bite - "Customer spills coffee and gets millions". But that wasn"t the case and the final settlement was much less.

KEG

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dhermesc

01-04-2005 07:52:07




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to KEG, 01-03-2005 18:32:15  
Tru the final settlement on the McDonalds case was less, but how much did it cost to defend?

I agree with your case of a negligent doctor needing to be sued out of practice but too many times good doctors are getting sued too. Guy who worked for us knocked up his girl friend, baby is born to this smoking, dope smoking, and hard drinking couple. The baby has complications with early birth, low birth weight and lack of oxygen during birth (could it have anything to do with mom weighing 300+ pounds?). They hire a lawyer (who contacted them) and sue for millions, insurance company settles for $300K, he brags about how the doctor was scared to death to have a jury decide the case. Lawyer collects $160K of the settlement. In the mean time the doctor got paid $2500 or so by Medicade to deliver a baby.

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Dug

01-03-2005 17:47:54




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 07:20:53  
Hey Brian,

Great comments! While the general public may find it hard to believe, insurance companies do run on relatively small margins made up, primarily, of investment income.

As a general comment, one can not look at individual policies and assume an insurance company is making money hand over fist. A block of policies must be viewed to determine if all claims weighed against all premiums collected plus investment returns allow the company a profit. Considering the huge losses insurance companies have taken in recent years combined with relatively low investment returns, it should come as no surprise that companies are raising rates. They have stockholders to report to and profit must be a part of that report!

Dug

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Mike (inWisc.)

01-03-2005 10:58:58




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 07:20:53  
Must say that I do not agree with your point about induvidual homeowners policies having low profit rates. You have to remember that the ratio of claims to policies is small. Therefore MOST of the policies out there are profitable for them by quite a large margin, and the ones that aren't get dropped.

I will offer proof of that as well. Look at the profitibility of General Casualty and American Family for the last year. (Both of these are local to Wi with their headquarters here.) If you want the figures, I can post them, but they are available on line for anybody to see.

This is NOT a low profit business, and they are charging premiums WELL in EXCESS of what they need to operate.

One other thing--I could be wrong, but do not believe premiums to regulated in Wis. I think they can charge whatever they wish.

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KCTractors

01-03-2005 19:00:24




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Mike (inWisc.), 01-03-2005 10:58:58  
My wife has 35 years in the insurance business in Wisconsin. Here is her comments: I am an Audit Specialist for an insurance company and all insurance companies are regulated by the state insurance departments. Any insurance companies doing business in a state must be licensed to do so and must file all rates, rules and endorsements with the state departments of insurance(this is all 50 states). When a state wants to raise its rates, they must file the change of rates with the insurance department with justification of loss ratio. If the insurance department feels the increase is too much and the loss ratio doesn"t justify the increase, they will disapprove the rate change. Insurance companies are highly regulated by the states. Insurance Departments can come into insurance companies and audit them anytime. Right now we have 4 states in our office, Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri and Colorado. Each state has anywhere from 2 to 6 auditors which we must pay their room and board, supplies, rental car, air travel, food and air travel home for the weekend.
Time they will audit anywhere from 1 month to 5 months. My job as an Audit Specialist is to self audit before the insurance departments come in and find errors.

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Brian in NY

01-03-2005 11:56:52




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Mike (inWisc.), 01-03-2005 10:58:58  
I am sorry but I did not intend to say that the insurance is a low profit business. But do not make the mistake of thinking that the insurance companies are taking in cash hand over fist and relying only on premiums to make a profit. Investment is a HUGE factor. I am not familiar with either of the companies you mentioned, but I would guess that they are relatively small (compared to the big players like Allstate, Farmers, State Farm etc.) "niche" carriers who have had great luck on loss ratios due to their selective marketing. It can be done.

In general, however, the average homeowners carrier experiences loss ratios much greater than you probably think.

A great resource to check out these figures is the insurance information institute....I have posted the link below.

I can see you are bitter about insurance premiums, and I don't blame you...but I think once you see the factual information in print you might be less inclined to think that you are being "raped" by your insurer. Why would any insurance company be in business if there were NO profit? If your state does not regulate premiums I suggest contacting your state representatives and asking why. Who knows, maybe you will spark something big!

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Mike(inWisc.)

01-03-2005 12:45:49




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 11:56:52  
Looked at your website, and in particular the data for Wisconsin.

Funny how those figures are NOT consistant with the profitability of many cos. that do business here, and the two I cited previously are just two examples.

How can they have 100s of millions in profits every year if they are just barely covering their expenses? That just does not add up. Sorry, but I am not buying that.

Gee, do you think that data might be compiled in a way to prove a preconceived notion? HMMM, might that just be possible?

By the way, I am not bitter about premiums, but am very bitter about how I have seen insurance cos. operate.

I am licenced to sell life and health, but do not practice. I am a stockbroker by trade, but have some annuities of clients that I manage. I did not sell them, but there were brought to me.

I can tell you many horror stories about abuses in life, and annuities. While it is true that there are bad apples in every industry, insurance seems to have more than their fair share. (Same can actually be said of my profession as well.)

I guess I am not so much ranting against insurance as I am against unethical people.

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Midwest redneck

01-03-2005 09:49:25




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 Re: OT--the Real Deal on Insurance! in reply to Brian in NY, 01-03-2005 07:20:53  
I like your comments. However I will add to them. 1. The reason a lot people dont like insurance companies right off the bat is because when they are kids, 17-18-19 years old they are raped on coverage for a beater car. I never had an accident when I was a kid and paid $1,500 per year for basic coverage and theft (20 years ago). (I am not complaining just stating facts)
2. Home owners insurance isnt as expensive as car insurance. But the $1,000 per year premiums are a bit much, for a $200,000 home. 3. After 9/11/01 insurance premiums went up a lot, my neighbors brother hauls cars for a living and the insurance on his trucks went up 30% right after 9/11, he called his agent and the agent says yep, everybody has to pay more because of the terrorist attacks, WHY! please explain this one to me. 4. Some people make a claim once every 30 years or so and then their rate gets jacked up. 5. There needs to be litigation reform for all the ambulance chasing lawyers. And a money cap for deaths and injurys, say $1 million for deaths and $50,000 broken legs etc.

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