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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

frost plug heater

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TomR Ont.

12-22-2004 00:35:51




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Which is worse for the tractor, leave the frost plug heater on all the time, or put it on a timer 2hrs on 2hrs off during the day, and off all night, or say 2+ - hrs before using and off untill I need to use it again. It starts right up at -25 with it pluged in all the time, but I'm wondering if it will hurt anything like ruin the oil ect.? It's a outdoors small 24hp diesel tractor. Thanks, Tom.
PS. The wife won't let it in the house.

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buickanddeere

12-22-2004 09:35:45




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 lubrication is even more important Re: frost plug in reply to TomR Ont., 12-22-2004 00:35:51  
Electricity is cheaper than performing early repairs. The main hazard with block heaters is that they don't warm the oil. Now the engine starts right up but the cold stiff mineral oil can be over a minute before making it up to the oilpump, through the filter( it's likely gone full bypass anyways)and to the far end of the lubrication system. Machines that run 24/7 or run steady except for fuelling and started warm like taxi cabs. Those engines last a long time. Cold starts without lubrication is death to engines. Plus we often see the proud person who got the engine to start, gooses it a few times with lots of rpm in triumph that it started. Synthetic oil in the crankcase or a oil pan heater is just as or more important than a block heater.

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TomR Ont.

12-22-2004 13:37:35




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to buickanddeere, 12-22-2004 09:35:45  
buickanddeere, I was always under the impression the block heater, heated the oil via heat transfer from the block, which was the best heating system, re: block heater, magnet, inline rad hose heater, light bulb or hot coals (I know a guy that still does it). I can't aford to let it run 24/7 so I assume I should leave it plug in during the cold weather and let the engine warm up before using it. It has a decompression leaver I use it before I start the engine to get the oil moving without load. Is this the best way to help keep it longer, as it will have to last a long time. thanks, tom "often see the proud person"
Back in the late '50s my older cousin did this (he said it got the oil to the moving parts faster) and to make matters worse, he gunned the engine as he turned off the key, I was told years later all he was doing was washing out the oil on the rings.

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buickanddeere

12-22-2004 14:17:12




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to TomR Ont., 12-22-2004 13:37:35  
Heat travels by radiation, convection and conduction. Radiation doesn't count here. Convection is heat's physical property of rising, so the water jacket way above the oil pan doesn't count. Conduction is just too far away and down for water jacket heat to get to the oil pan too. Probably the wost thing about block heaters is thay allow an engine to start when it won't be lubricated. Rolling the engine over without compression for several rotations after the oil pressure gauge begins to read is certainly benificial. Amazing how many two cylinder diesel Deeres. Have an operator who is shocked to learn there is a decompression lever or that it should be used. I've even seen a family of three who didn't know the dash fuel stop knob was there to shut it off. They either stalled it or pulled the compression release for shutdown!!! An external magnetic mount heater is only 100 or so watts . However if in out of the wind and right under the oil pump pickup it has to thin the oil some. Still a true synthetic oil is far superior in extreme cold or heat.

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Sid

12-22-2004 15:58:58




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to buickanddeere, 12-22-2004 14:17:12  
I leave mine plugged in most of the time as I don"t always have an hour notice. As for it not doing the oil any good can you tell me why I can pul my dipstick and it is warm. In fact I can feel the side of the oil pan and it is warm not as warm as the block but it is warm.



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buickanddeere

12-22-2004 16:25:37




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to Sid , 12-22-2004 15:58:58  
What king of engine, lucky you? Most coolant heaters leave the oil pan way down below it stone cold. The two cylinder block heaters leave the 4050, 2355, 2-53 Detroit and all the V6 & V8 GM vehicles here with cold oil and warm coolant.



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TomR Ont.

12-22-2004 15:21:25




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to buickanddeere, 12-22-2004 14:17:12  
buickanddeere: I was sure the block heat would travel down, lot of misconceptions I guess. oops:
I forgot or missed the last two lines of your first post, cought it in the second post RE: synthetic oil. This 2 banger is at least 25 years old (still a great tractor for it's size) is safe to put synthetic oil in it now, I've read it's too old to start now, with the ware on the rings and seals I could get leaks or blowby.

I will get a external magnetic heater, and in conjunctpon with the block heater the tractor might live a few years more.
Should I use synthetic oil?

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buickanddeere

12-22-2004 16:33:33




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to TomR Ont., 12-22-2004 15:21:25  
Some of the synthetic oil horror stories are true from back in the days there were dozens of manufactures brewing something labeled synthetic in thier garage. As long as Mobile 1, Amsoil or the synthetic Deere sells, then no problem. The external magnetic heater is certainly much better than nothing if used out of the wind and left on 24/7.



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TomR Ont.

12-22-2004 17:07:36




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 Re: lubrication is even more important Re: frost p in reply to buickanddeere, 12-22-2004 16:33:33  
buickanddeere:
Thanks, merry christmas to you,
and
to all on the Tractor Boards.
You have no idea how much $$$, education and help, you people have given us.
Even to those too busy to write back and say it worked or not.
Thanks for them.
Tom



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paul

12-22-2004 06:55:06




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 Re: frost plug heater in reply to TomR Ont., 12-22-2004 00:35:51  
You don't really harm anything either way. No a small tractor 1 hour, on a large tractor 2 hours, before you use it is all that is needed, with it outdoors you are really using a lot of electricity to have it on all the time.....

--->Paul



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billyiron

12-22-2004 02:08:01




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 Re: frost plug heater in reply to TomR Ont., 12-22-2004 00:35:51  
we have had tractors and trucks plugged in all the time when not in use in cold weather ; never had any problems, to save some money on electric bill it would be smart to have a timer, to come on a couple hours or so before use,,whatever it takes to get it so it will start ok,,,billy



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Stickler

12-24-2004 14:02:00




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 Re: frost plug heater in reply to billyiron, 12-22-2004 02:08:01  
I live in Canada, where we know cold! Cars and trucks here....seldom do you see anyone NOT leave them plugged in for every moment they are not running up here in the winter. Tractors, well, on those I use a combination of block heaters, rad hose heaters, and circulating water heaters. Depends on the engine size and the ambient temp how long they need to be plugged in.



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