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Building fence on property line

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Leland

11-06-2004 15:36:49




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Am looking at 17 acres on one side there is a messy fence row with an old fence on line. Can I legaly have this dozed and cleaned up to replace fence so I can turn a few cows loose??




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Jerry/MT

11-07-2004 13:40:07




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Leland,

We bought our small ranch property three years ago and part of county requirements imposed on the Sellers was that the parcel be surveyed.(From my point of view, I would have required a survey even if the county didn't require it because absolutely no one on God's green earth can look at a parcel of ground and tell you its projected area.)As I suspected, none of the broken down fences was on the property lines . Some expanded the purchased area enclosed by the fences and some decreased it, but overall, the area increased. Prior to closing, I called all of the neighbors affected and told them that I intended to refence to the surveyed boundaries and would like there help in doing so. Only one person questioned the survey but nobody was ornery about it so I went ahead with the purchase. Now there are laws regarding adverse possession in every state and the neighbors could have claimed the land by that principal since the land was in that configuration since Hector was a pup. If that happened (or happens), my recourse is to go back to the Seller for relief. To date, my neighbors have been supportive of my position and I don't believe that I will have any problems. I gather you haven't bought the place yet so there are several things you can do BEFORE you sign the contract. I guess the best advice I can give is to talk to the neighbor who owns the land and tell him/her what your plans are. Invite them to help you with the fence . They may not be in a financial situation where they can help you put in the new fence (that's been my case for the most part) but if he/she is a fair minded person they will not fight you over it. If they're not fair minded and want a fight, maybe you should look at another piece of propery, or tell the seller about the issue and let them deal with it. The seller might have to reduce the selling acreage and thus the selling price, but you won't have a fight on your hands.
Good Luck.

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Dale in IN

11-07-2004 08:20:24




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Go to your state government web site and look for fence laws. Some of the laws differ pertaining to what the property is used for. Just went through this in IN and thae state has very specific laws and explains what you need to do.



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paul

11-07-2004 07:17:51




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
I didn't look at all the replies, but you are treading on very slippery legal & ethical boundries here.

I'd talk to the neighbor & say what I was doing, get the ok. Then go for it.

If you do not get along with your neigbor, then you have a whole mess of issues, and it will also depend on your state's laws, so no one can say exactly what is legal without knowing your state.

You could be openning a can of worms as to where the boundry is/ should be and all that, if you don't get along.

If your neighbor is a govt body, then there are different rules, and 'they' often require a setback from their property. I don't support that, just tellin you how it is 'here'.

--->Paul

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jdemaris

11-07-2004 06:26:30




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
I had a guy arrested last year for doing that. City guy bought 20 acres adjacent to my 100 acres, up on the mountain out of sight from me. He hired a contactor with some heavy equipment and started removing the stone walls that are our boundary line. He was having the stone put on pallets and was planning on selling it. I called the State Police and had him arrested. The stone got put back but not stacked as was originally. The guy first argued that it was "his" boundary line; couldn't seem to get it through his head that a line indicates TWO owners involved, not just one. He than argued that I couldn't even see the wall from my house, and I wasn't using it for anything. I see no logic in his argument.
This sort of thing is happening more and more around here in central New York State because the stones have market value. Many of these stone walls date back to the late 1700s. As far as building fences on lines, I wouldn't do it. It requires permission from all owner's involved, and even with permission, what happens when one party sells their property? The practice around here for new fences is to do so off the line a bit. If I build a new fence, it's all on my property. Even this can cause survey problems later because sometimes, some people assume a fence line IS the property line - and often it is not.

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ricky hilton

04-30-2005 20:21:36




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to jdemaris, 11-07-2004 06:26:30  
I JUST NEED SOME INFO ABOUT THE FENCE ON THE LINE. ABOUT A YEAR AGO MY FRIEND BESIDE ME WAS BUILDING ON HIS HOUSE SO HE ASKED IF HE COULD BORROW ABOUT 6 FEET OF MY PROPERTY, WELL I SAID HE COULD TEMPORARLEY SO HE PUT UP A FENCE THEN HE HAD THE CITY TO PUT A POWER POLE ON MY LAND. so I CALLED THE CITY, THEY SAID THEY WOULD MOVE IT FOR 900.OO DOLLARS. SO I ASKED MY SO CALLED FRIEND TO PUT THE FENCE BACK WHERE IT WAS, NOW HE SAYS THE FENCE WAS PUT UP WRONG YEARS AGO AND HES WAS GOING TO TAKE WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS HIS UNLESS I HAD IT SURVIED I CAN'T AFFORD TO HAVE THIS DONE. WHAT HE HAD BUILT ON HIS HOUSE I CAN REACH WHERE THE FENCE IS SUPPOSED TO BE AND TOUCH HIS HOUSE I THOUGHT YOU HAD TO BUILD SO FAR FROM THE LINE I LIVE IN CABARRUS COUNTY I DONT KNOW THE LAWS AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO MAYBE SOMEONE CAN E-MAIL ME AND HELP. THIS MAKES ME FEEL BAD BECAUSE I WAS JUST TRYING TO HELP HIM AND HE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF MY STUPIDITY

NO MORE MR. NICE GUY

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john in la

11-07-2004 05:04:06




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Boy every time I see you guys talking about fences I shake my head at all the rules you have.

How do you ever keep it straight when two land owners are forced to pay for 50% of a fence?? I can see why they do it as one owner pays for the whole fence but the other gets a free fence.
But how do you do it when one owner says I want barbed wire and the other says NO I need field wire?? No I got a big dog so I need 6' fence not 4'or I want wood not chain link.

Around here you put up your fence on your property. Yes land owners do get together to make a common fence but not all ways. I have seen two fences 1' apart on lots of land. When I moved on the property I am on now. My neighbor had barded wire 6" on his property. I asked him if I could put field fence on his post. He said sure. He got a better fence because his wire was old and I got free post. But my fence is 6" on his property.

Guess I better stay in my little back woods state cause if I was ever told I had to pay for 50% of a fence I did not want I would ..... .. (well I will not go there) Lets just say you will get a fence but I do not think it will hold cows in.

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Mark - IN.

11-06-2004 19:48:20




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Here in Elkhart County, IN. if it's AG, and the fence is right smack dab on the property line, one party puts up and maintains 1/2 the fence, the other party does the same with the other 1/2. Now, if they don't want to put up, or help put up the fence, and I do it all myself, then I back it up 4" minimum onto my property. Otherwise, if I put it up smack dab on the line, the side that faces my property is mine, and the side that faces theirs, is theirs, and if they want to paint their side of my fence green and yellow, they can - that could pose a problem and start a war. LOL.

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Joe (Wa)

11-06-2004 21:26:03




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Mark - IN., 11-06-2004 19:48:20  
Ah, ya don't have to worry, ain't nobody in their right mind gonna paint anything green & yeller.....yuck, yuck, & yuck.



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Rod F.

11-06-2004 18:26:56




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Hi Leland,

I went through a very similar situation a few years ago. Absentee owners of the neighbouring property had not spent a nickle on maintaining fence in 50 years. We needed to put up new electric to power our lower pastures, and this was a mess of old page wire, raspberries and rose bushes. I did the same thing you want to do. Dozed it and put a new fence ON the line. In Nova Scotia, the fence is the line, if it has been an established boundary for 20 years. In my case, the fence had been off a bit. I guess it was since it was put there 150 years ago. To make a long story short, the neighbours were ready to sell, did a survey, and the pins were set on the fence line. We actually gained a few feet, but, as I said, it was a long established line. Your area may be different, so it wouldn't hurt to check. Beyond that, it would not hurt to talk to the guy. If he doesn't want to help with the expenses, then he should keep his mouth shut when your dozer clears a few feet of weeds off his side of the line. BTW, I'm no lawyer, but the advice is worth every cent..... Good luck.

Rod

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Redmud

11-06-2004 17:45:08




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Leland, I don't know anything about your neck of the woods. But it's seems here in Texas that if you have cows, or want to own cows, and your neighbor has no cows, nor wants none, you are the fence builder. It comes down to who wants to own, and keep up with thier cows. all stray cows that don't have an owner attached will be sold at auction by the sheriff dept. I could be wrong about this, but don't think so..
Redmud

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wh

11-06-2004 17:49:29




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Redmud, 11-06-2004 17:45:08  
glad i live in alabama. here if you want a fence - build it! on land lines it is suggested you back off 12" unless adjoining owner wants it on line. however, if a fence is built over the line and uncontested for 7 years - land becomes yours. be kind of expensive for me as i live between 2 cattle operations - they have fence on 3 sides of me. glad to know i don"t have to pay for a fence around 3 sides of 140 acres.

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paul

11-07-2004 13:08:06




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to wh, 11-06-2004 17:49:29  
So - how do you maintain ownership of that 12" strip??? I mean, you put up a fence 1 foot back from your line, and for 20 years you use your property & the neighbors use the other side right up to your fence.... Don't you lose the foot of property? It's not wide enough to even push a mower on, so you can't 'maintain' it or use it or anything....

Just curious how those 2 laws work together - stay back 1 foot, but you have to maintain your property as yours - how to protect that one foot?

--->Paul

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kyhayman

11-06-2004 17:25:50




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Based on my read of Il fence law you can force him to build 1/2 the fence. Its the same way here in KY. I can force someone to build or get a lein on their property for 1/2 the fence cost. I've never liked that approach. Been on the receivng end of a bag of salt laced with insecticide before and cut fences. Lucky I found the poison before the cows did. If I need to build fence I always talk to the neighbor, if he wont I just build it myself and eat the cost. Just did 3800' of woven wire, guy didnt want a single tree disturbed on his side of the line, I got a dozer to peel right down the line and clean it out, far edge of the blade right on the line and clear on me. Then I put the fence up on the boundary. Not worth a war with a neighbor over a thousand dollars.

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jfky

11-07-2004 03:11:09




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to kyhayman, 11-06-2004 17:25:50  
I agree with kyhayman. Good fences make good neighbors and sometimes in order to make a good neighbor one must eat the cost.



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no reserve name

11-06-2004 17:32:29




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to kyhayman, 11-06-2004 17:25:50  
Where do live again Ken, or Russia?



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kyhayman

11-06-2004 17:45:05




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to no reserve name, 11-06-2004 17:32:29  
Most of my neighbors are wealthy non farming types who want a farm to hunt on or watch the wildlife. Most leave me alone if I leave them alone.

A few years ago I witnessed a car accident where a girl got killed (2 fools drag racing). About a week after the trial, 4 of us got that saw it all found poison in our pasture fields. Like I said, I try not to rock anybody's boat, just do my own thing and not bother a potential nutcase.

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kyhayman

11-07-2004 08:42:17




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to kyhayman, 11-06-2004 17:45:05  
Fences and boundaries can cause bad blood that extends for generations. My family owns a farm that dates to a colonial land grant from North Carolina. Only problem is that another land own owns a farm that is part of a grant from Virginia (both NC and VA claimed that part of the Kentucky). Deeds are hand written, and use trees and rocks for reference points. The issue was finally settled in 1953 by court order. But..... ..... there are two family cemetaries filled with graves that date back over 200 years where blood has been shed over someone moving a corner rock. Sad part of it, the last grave was filled in 1972, almost 20 years after it was 'settled'. To this day we still have to have the sheriff out about once every 2 or 3 years to keep the adjoining land owners from putting a cable up over our access road.

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Scrooge

11-06-2004 17:10:54




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
I found this link to "Illinois Fence Law." I just glanced though it, but it appears that the other property owner would be required by law to either build or pay for his half of a fence if you want to put one up. I don't know about the bulldozing/clearing part of your question -- guess that's where "fence viewers" come in. I didn't know until tonight that there was such a thing as a fence viewer.

Hope this helps.

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Scrooge

11-06-2004 17:13:57




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Scrooge, 11-06-2004 17:10:54  
Oops! The link didn"t post. It is www.farmdoc.uiuc.edu/legal/otherlaw_table1.html



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Jimmy King

11-06-2004 16:47:39




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Leland, If I were you I would talk to the other land owner ask if he would be inestered in bulldozing the old one out and putting in a new one. If he is not, ask him permission to do it on your own. I never hurts to ask.



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JoeMN

11-06-2004 16:27:56




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Minnesota township code says rural landowners facing each other at the center of their common boundary would be responsible for building the half of the fence to his/her right. The code specifies type of wire,posts etc. to constitute legal fence. Fence is one of the obligations accompanying land ownership,and if disputed,the town board members act as fence viewers and may cause a fence to be built and assessed on taxes. Cities,villages, and incorporated towns may have their unique ordinances about fences. This info may be dated,from a 35 year old manual.

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I Like Case

11-06-2004 16:14:35




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Have you tried to contact the adjacent land owner? Chances are they feel the same way about the run down fence as you do. Check it out, he may even be willing to help you out with it.



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Leland

11-06-2004 16:18:32




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to I Like Case, 11-06-2004 16:14:35  
Yeah a city boy that bought it for a little hunting and some where to ride his 4 wheeler. and is not very friendly.



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John (C-IL)

11-06-2004 15:49:50




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Fence laws have been debated since Cain killed Abel and the Hatfields and the McCoys started fighting.

It makes a BIG difference what state you are in.

The short side is that without the knowledge and support from the neighboring property owner you are on thin ice.



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leland

11-06-2004 16:04:22




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to John (C-IL), 11-06-2004 15:49:50  
Same as you ILL



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RN

11-06-2004 15:48:30




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
Depending on state law you may be able to get other parties to fence to allow you to do all work yourself. Often fence law has both parties to boundary fence required to maintain fence or share cost. Hassle could be county maintaining or repairing fence and adding cost to tax bill. May have to build your own stock fence a foot or so inside boundary fence to avoid legal hassles. Check your state laws. RN

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Leland

11-06-2004 16:12:36




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to RN, 11-06-2004 15:48:30  
Yeah I know that other side borders railroad tracks They are happy to build fence to keep stock off tracks ,at least they used to.



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Midwest redneck

11-06-2004 15:47:26




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 15:36:49  
I have heard (and believe myself) that anything on your property is yours and you can do with it as you wish, I am not speaking as a lawyer...because I aint one. So if you know the exact location of the property line and the fence is on your side then you can doze it. Case in point: there is a woman I work with who owns 10 acres and has no fence and her one neighbor to the side of her (she has a 335 X 1360 lot size) was cutting her grass by going over about 10 feet onto her property all the way down the 1360'. She contacted a survey comp. because she wanted to put up a fence and the surveror said if she decides to go with the fence to put it 1 foot inside the legal boundries on her side of the line.

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Leland

11-06-2004 16:10:19




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Midwest redneck, 11-06-2004 15:47:26  
I know for my home zoning said put her right on line, but since this is ag I don't think zoning wants to be involed. but this fence is right down the middle of line also. but I have noticed any more when these older propertys are survied that I have saw the lines move as much as 15-20 feet. bacause of GPS



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Edchainsaw

11-06-2004 19:04:21




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Leland , 11-06-2004 16:10:19  
I have seen GPS be off 10-20ft myself..

its told around here in IN if you build anything today you must set back 5ft from the property line.

Fences built on the line are 1/2 and 1/2 from the center you built the right 1/2... and it will be assesed to taxes if the entire fence is fixed. that includes buldozing the line out.

(our land lord didnt want to pay for his and his neighbor was the Township Trustee... he paid)

if you want to build just half the line.. thats your right to. We have done that a few times ourselves.. have some really bad spots in the fence that belongs to the neighbors LOL.

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Farmer in the Dells (WI)

11-07-2004 08:29:25




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 Re: Building fence on property line in reply to Edchainsaw, 11-06-2004 19:04:21  
Ed and Leland. Did not want to get off this topic so I started a new thread on GPS



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