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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another one

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andy b.

11-02-2004 07:57:30




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here's my problem. i have an old log splitter with an 8HP B&S engine on it. the engine has always had a few problems, but ran good enough to run the splitter. this weekend it ran rough for about five minutes then quit. i pulled the flywheel off and cleaned the points, so it has a good spark now, but it still won't run. i pulled the carb off and cleaned it, but both the main and idle needles could probably be changed, as well as needing a new gasket set. also, the throttle linkages are all missing and my throttle control is a piece of 10 ga. wire that i bend to set the throttle opening. i also noticed the head gasket has a leak just above the intake, and when i took the spark plug out and looked into the head, it looks pretty cruddy in there (probably from running the thing with not much of an air cleaner on it).

so, i use the log splitter pretty often to split firewood to help heat my house every winter, and i'm sick of playing around with this worn engine. should i spend yet more time and money getting gaskets and what-not and rebuilding the thing, or just look for a decent used running engine? heck, i can even get a new 8HP Tecumseh from Northern Tool for $289. i'm leaning towards a different engine (either new or used). what would you folks do taking into account that i want to use this thing ASAP and my time is relatively free, but it does have SOME value to me (i have many other projects i could be doing).

thanks,

andy b.

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Chris R.

02-05-2005 18:38:46




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Im re-building my 8HP B&S and I was just woundering, how did you take off the flywheel? I took off the bolt that holds it on and I have no idea on how to take it off. Thanks
Chris



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rod s

11-03-2004 07:31:00




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
I have a honda 5.5 on my splitter it is a very good engine well worth having I also have a 9hp tecumseh new that I got off ebay had to mess with the carb when I first got it make sure you put an inline fuel filter in it if you can saves a lot of carb problems the 9HP has electric start also. both work fine now but honda is quite and easy on fuel.
regards
rod



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Rod F.

11-02-2004 19:01:23




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
I can't tell you much about the B&S. I know the new emmisioned B&S are no prize to start. You'd sooner split the wood with an axe than start the engine. One thing I can say is that I am impressed with Honda engines. I used to be doubtful, until I got on in my feed cart. It runs 4 times a day, every day, without fail. It generally starts on the first pull. I think you would be time and money ahead to buy a new Honda if you determine that you need to spend a bunch on the old engine. Other option is to plug into the tractor, if it pumps enough oil at idle speeds to do the job, or else you will spend a fortune in fuel. HTH.

Rod

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Leland

11-02-2004 18:46:15




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
The 8 hp tecumseh is a great motor,put one on one of my troybilts and even after sitting for months always started by 2nd pull never had any problems. But my new briggs a lot of minor crap to fix carbs are junk and the tecumseh will work circles around the one with briggs and the best deals come from www.smallenginewarehouse check there online store some motors have free shipping. good luck



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Hermit

11-02-2004 18:33:21




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Is the key properly installed on the flywheel? Does the engine have good compression? If you put a tablespoon of gas into the sparkplug hole, re-install the plug and the engine starts and runs briefly, then it's a fuel/carb problem.



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Kevin in OK

11-02-2004 17:46:18




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
If you do get a new engine, donate the old one to a shop class at a nearby school.



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andy b.

11-02-2004 15:59:37




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
thanks for all the replies!!!
well i pulled the head off and it looks okay. i think the leak i saw was the gasket for the intake since the head and head gasket all look fine and don't show any signs of leakage. the piston looks like new and the cylinder bore looks perfect (no ridge or scoring). the valve seats look okay and the valves have a nice shiney ring where they seat. there is no play in the connecting rod or crank bearings.

all in all, this &$*#@ thing should run, but it doesn't. i guess the carb and throttle linkage is so messed up that it is my problem. i can't believe the thing won't even sputter to life though. i bet a new carb for this thing would cost as much as an engine. anyone have any other tips for adjusting the carb or anything? is there a good website that has a discussion group for these engines?

thanks again for the replies, and i am still undecided what to do. i'll give the thing one more chance if i can get some info on the carb, otherwise it may end up as a counterweight for something.
:-)

andy b.

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John R.-IL

11-02-2004 15:54:04




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
If you have a tractor with remote valves, replumb your splitter to the tractor and throw your old engine away. Problem solved!



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jdemaris

11-02-2004 15:17:21




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
I disagree with a number of things mentioned in some other posts, but won't get into the details. Generally speaking, parts are not exactly "dirt cheap" but often, not many are needed. That being said, I think you need to determine if your engine is worth screwing around with. Without me knowing the vintage or application of the engine, check the following: Pull the head off and closely inspect the cylinder bore. If it looks quite scored up and if it's aluminum, then it's a "throw-away" non-rebuildable engine. If the entire engine is cast iron, or if the engine is aluminum but has a cast-iron sleeve/liner, that it might very well be worth saving. Now, look closely at the exhaust valve seat - especially if the engine block is aluminum. If the seat appears to be loose - or you see peen marks where someone else tried to tighten it, then the engine is junk. If the bore-surface is cast-iron, the seat is tight - then check for excess play in the crank bearings. If they are tight, and you don't see a lot of oil leaking onto the ignition points - they you have an engine that will last a long time with a little work. As far as the crud you see under and on the head - that's inherent in the design of any flathead engine - they are inefficient and run dirty. No big deal, just scrape the carbon out. One other wear area is the plunger hole for the little piston that activates the points (depending on what model engine you have). There's a repair-bushing available for it. If, you determine the engine is not worth saving, a word of caution with short-blocks. They are often more expensive than buying an entire engine from one or many wholesale dealers. A little bit on the history of the Briggs and Tecumnseh engines - a very brief and general one. The older ones were either cast iron, or aluminum with cast-iron sleeves. At some point in time, ca. late 50s, early 60s, both companies cheapened their engines for the United States "throw-away" market but kept on making the more durable engines for export to poorer and more frugal countries. Then, mid-70s Honda introduced competition that put Briggs and Tecumseh to shame. We were selling commercial walk-behind Bobcat and Bunton mowers during the early-mid 70s, and a landscaper would buy a new engine every year if things went well! These were 11 horse aluminum Briggs or 10 horse cast-iron Tecumsehs. Then Honda introduced their new 10 horse replacement engine, and it outlasted the others 3 or 4 to 1. Soon to follow, were updated optional versions of engines from Briggs and Tecumseh with things such as cast-iron cylinder liners, heavy duty air cleaners, better valves, and ball-bearing supported crankshafts. Briggs marketed many as "Industrial Commercial." In the mean time, Wisconsin started selling Subaru replacement engines, labled as "Wisconsin Robin" and they also were very durable. And today? I've lost track and can't tell who makes what. I worked for a Deere dealer and sold a lot of small equiment with Kawasaki and Echo small engines, but I'm not real impressed with the Kawasaki. Honda makes good stuff, I think Subaru makes better, and as far as today's Briggs and Tecumseh - I don't have a clue.

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tim in wi

11-02-2004 15:00:00




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
buy new sounds like 300 new or 299.95 and a lot time and $$%%^^ but i fix em for a live ing gl tim



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Chip123

11-02-2004 14:29:48




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Check surpluscity. or smallenginewarehouse.



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Andrew Betzner

11-02-2004 13:27:03




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
I don't know what you guys are talking about but all the Brigs i've taken appart are pretty cheap imo.....i like the tecumseh's....

Anyway, a new head gasket, oil pan gasket, and piston rings, condenser, points, would probably cost around $10..... i'd take it all apart and clean it..... .if after you clean everything and put it back together and it doesn't run.....then i'd by a new one..... i mean the worst case would be your out $10 and about 5 hours....

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DCM

11-02-2004 13:19:09




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Andy, is it the 23 series B+S, Dan



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andy b.

11-02-2004 15:46:58




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to DCM, 11-02-2004 13:19:09  
Dan,

it's a Model 190417, Type 3093 01.

andy b.



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JT

11-02-2004 12:20:20




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Another option is to get a short block. All the internal parts are new, you would need a new solid state coil, then put otgether and run. Will save you a little cash this way, but still have new internal parts on the engine.



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RN

11-02-2004 12:01:59




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Get a new engine. You need extra aircleaner and low oil shutoff, auto shutoff of gasline if not running- also handy option for you. The old engine has as you stated led a hard life with defered maintenance. If you are unable to maintain engine for whatever reason, get new. and pay for servicing. RN



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Bob - MI

11-02-2004 11:28:08




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Depends on how patient you are and how much time you have on your hands but you may be well ahead to get a new engine. Lots of choices out there but I am fond of B&S over Tecumseh. Have never owned a Kohler but they are highly touted. Hondas are great engines but they are really expensive.

Shop around and you"ll get a good deal. No matter what you get it sounds like you will be way ahead of what you have now. 8hp would be one I would want a compression release on.

I"ve got a 10hp Tecumseh on a generator and I hate it. I can"t get it started when I need it and the recoil starter broke on it after about 1 year. It"s got so much compression that you need arms like Popeye to fire it off. Worst engine I"ve ever owned and I"ve got less than 1 hour total time on it.

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Mike (WA)

11-02-2004 08:19:27




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
Briggs used to have a better reputation than it has now. Tecumsah was always considered kind of a "cheapie", don't know whether they have improved. I had one on a Troy Bilt tiller, and never liked it- much more satisfied with the Kohler on the one I have now. Seems like the cream of the crop now is Honda, if you can afford it.



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rustyfarmall

11-02-2004 08:15:21




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to andy b., 11-02-2004 07:57:30  
You can totally rebuild the engine you have, or you can buy a brand new engine, either way you will have spent about the same kind of money, and the new engine WILL have warranty.



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Mark - IN.

11-02-2004 22:34:54




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to rustyfarmall, 11-02-2004 08:15:21  
Rusty, I think you hit the nail right on the head. About the same money by the time get done with parts, and warranty vrs. no warranty.

I rebuilt a Briggs once, and honed for the new rings. Probably wasn"t a good idea because of a time worn bore and piston - but the oil burning kept down the mosquitos. Just replaced the 6HP Tecumseh on my sister"s "64 Wheel Horse with a new 10HP Tecumseh. Only mistake I made was not paying a few extra $$$ to get her an electric start - takes all 90 lbs of her, and wondering if she"ll be able to this winter to blade her drive.

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jakej

11-04-2004 09:02:24




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to Mark - IN., 11-02-2004 22:34:54  
Mark if buying a starter for the T make sure the flywheel has teeth, if not get the flywheel fom Ron also.



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Ron Anderson

11-03-2004 08:14:14




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to Mark - IN., 11-02-2004 22:34:54  
Mark I have a 10 horse Tecumseh that blew up and starter is good. Would sell for 25.00 plus shipping. I live in Minn if that makes a difference. Ron



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Mark - IN.

11-03-2004 16:10:26




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 Re: OT- Briggs engine repair, or look for another in reply to Ron Anderson, 11-03-2004 08:14:14  
Can Email me and tell me where to send and how much with shipping Ron (unhidden). She'll never be able to start that thing, and I don't see where I can get a starter only from Northern Tool. I messed up - was thinking about my 240 lbs, not her paper wieght. Thanks Ron, I appreciate it (so will she).



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