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Radial tire familiarity

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txblu

09-16-2004 05:55:13

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Never ran radials on a tractor but obviously have on auto's including the days when they first came out and you felt like you lost control of your '71 Chevy station wagon tub.

This tractor has rear radials and 750 -18 bias ply fronts, worn nearly smooth. The steering is powered and the tie rod ends are all tight. No apparent slop in the steering system.

When running down the road, at a reasonable road speed, the front end wanders all over the road. I correct and the next thing you know you're over center and have to correct back, then over center again and on.

Is this a "radial walk" that's causing this? I thought it was the front tires so I took a 3 rip set of bias 600-16's off another tractor and stuck them on for a test. It was better but still wandered.

Help appreciated.

Thanks,

Mark

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Can't even use my name

09-17-2004 15:00:20

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu, 09-16-2004 05:55:13

I read you upped the rear pressure to 18 psi. What tractor is this on and what does it weigh. 18 psi makes no use of the radial tire unless that is one heavy tractor. Most run about 10-12 on singles and down to 6-8 with duals. You adjust psi according to actual axle weight, not like the old bias tires.

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Old Ford Mechanic

09-16-2004 11:12:16

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu, 09-16-2004 05:55:13

First thing to do is check all parts in the steering system.This includes wheel bearings,spindle bushings,thrust bearings,pivot pins and bushings,all tie rod ends,backlash on worm and sectors in steering gear ect.Then make sure you have an equal amount of air pressure in the tires.If you have 16lbs in right rear make sure the left rear has 16lbs.Same deal on the front,if you have 35lbs in the right you want 35lbs in the left.If you have ballast on one side you want the same amount on the other side.Also a worn tire will make a difference in wheel pull.To set the toe on a tractor.Park the tractor on a hard level surface such as a concrete floor.take a 4 ft. level and plumb the centerline of the tire by aligning through the center of the grease cap on the wheel hub.Align the bubble in the level and make a chalk mark on each end at the front and the rear of the tire.Do this on both front tires."Do not jack the tractor up" Finally,take a measurement at the rear side of the wheels and one on the front side of the wheels.Some mechanic's like to measure from center tire rib to center rib on the other tire but i prefer to measure inside of rim to inside of the other rim.When properly aligned the front measurement such be 1/4" closer than the rear measement.Adjust this dimension with the tie rod ends."DO NOT BEND RODS" Camber and caster are not adjustable.If all the bushings and related parts are not worn these dimenisons will be right.I've been adjusting toe in for 35yrs using this procedure and have never had any steering "wander" or "tire wear" problems.

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txblu followup

09-17-2004 10:39:55

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to Old Ford Mechanic, 09-16-2004 11:12:16

Checked the toe in and it was .5" in at the wheel surface.

Rechecked the steering and found a loose nut at the tie rod that attaches to the steering arm from the steering box...tightened.

Drilled, tapped, installed zerks and greased all tie rods (4 places). Greased spindles again.

Put the front tire with the inside wear on the opposite side.

Upped the air press to 18 psig in the rears.

Road tested..... much better. Think it will do.

thanks.

Mark

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ShepFL

09-17-2004 05:51:46

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to Old Ford Mechanic, 09-16-2004 11:12:16

Thanks Sir !
I have copied that post for future reference.
Regards,

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txblu

09-16-2004 11:53:54

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to Old Ford Mechanic, 09-16-2004 11:12:16

Thanks, Old Ford. You just made it easy for me. Appreciate your time. Am copying your post now.

Mark

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txblu answer to all

09-16-2004 07:31:09

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu, 09-16-2004 05:55:13

First of all thanks to all for the quick replies.

Will check the bearings. The spindle arms are tight.

One tire is worn more on the inside than the out and the other is worn evenly. This could be as mentioned a heads up for the source of the steering problem.

How do you set the toe-in on a tractor? Maybe I'm getting confused with caster and camber, which I doubt there is any correction available.

Does toe-in mean (like it sounds) that the front of the tire is a shorter dimension (closer to each other) than the rear so that the tires essentially would run to the same point in infinity, rather than running parallel to each other, or rear in tighter than front which would make them diverge and separate at infinity?

Thanks again and thanks KIM for the feature.

Mark

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Allan in NE

09-16-2004 07:56:32

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu answer to all, 09-16-2004 07:31:09

Hi Mark,

A steering system will have three geometrical modes of function: Caster, Camber and Toe-in.

Given a correct Camber setting, and just as proper Caster gives the "Return to center" effect, Toe-in provides a small but certain amount of steering "stability".

Tires are toed in at the front just a touch; usually about 1/8" or so, but consult your owners manual as all outfits may vary.

When applied to faster moving cars and trucks, geometrical allowances in the Toe-in settings are made for compression of the rubber constructed steering bushings and such, but this is another whole chapter.

Allan

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txblu

09-16-2004 11:52:31

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to Allan in NE, 09-16-2004 07:56:32

Thanks Allen. Will get her out (the book), get the numbers and get her tweaked this pm.

About your comment concerning buying your farm, I will have full time to "be stupid" this December 31. Can't wait. My wife retired in "97 and has had a head start on me. When I talked to her about hanging it up, she was right there. Knew exactly what I was referring to and backed me up 100%.

Best,

Mark

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rustyfarmall

09-16-2004 08:28:58

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to Allan in NE, 09-16-2004 07:56:32

To understand "caster" think of a bicycle, the way that the front fork is raked out slightly, rather than being straight up and down. This would be "positive" caster. This will have an effect which will tend to cause the front wheels to run straight out in front of you. If there was no positive caster, or if you had negative caster, the wheels would behave very similar to the front wheels on a shopping cart. Camber can also be positive or negative, positive camber will result in the wheels on a common axle being closer together at the bottom than they are at the top. The caster and camber are built into a tractor axle, there is no adjustment provided, and the only way it would be out of adjustment is if it had become damaged in some way.

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txblu

09-16-2004 11:49:04

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to rustyfarmall, 09-16-2004 08:28:58

Now that you mention it, I recollect the two geometries on tractor front ends.

Funny what you just don't think about.....the bicycle forks bent forward and why.

Thanks,

Mark

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rustyfarmall

09-16-2004 06:24:00

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu, 09-16-2004 05:55:13

I have seen tractors with radial rear tires that will get sort of a side to side dance going when up to speed on the highway, but that is different than what you are describing. I agree with Allen, check the toe-in on the wide front.

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Allan in NE

09-16-2004 06:14:34

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu, 09-16-2004 05:55:13

Mark,

Check the toe-in of the dude; if set wrong this could cause the symptoms you describe.

Allan

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TheRealRon

09-16-2004 06:09:23

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to txblu, 09-16-2004 05:55:13

Jack the front end of the tractor up and grab each wheel and turn them side to side. What you have is either worn steering parts or worn/loose wheel bearings. The fact the tires are worn smooth just magnifies the problem.

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ken macfarlane

09-16-2004 06:39:30

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Re: Radial tire familiarity in reply to TheRealRon, 09-16-2004 06:09:23

Check toe-in as stated but could the axle pivot be worn too? If it is full hydro steering sometimes the orbital valve goes bad too.

Wheel bearings loose?

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