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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

synchro vs powershift

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Doug Rogers

09-13-2004 10:29:51




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What is the difference between power shift and synchro shift on a JD 4020? Simple question for my simple mind.




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John A.

09-13-2004 20:59:38




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to Doug Rogers, 09-13-2004 10:29:51  
Doug, The synchro tranny has 4 set if gears that are set up to be shiftes with our haveing to move from ones set to another 1 set...1-3-R, 2nd...2-5-R, 3rd ...4-7, 4th ..6-8. The power shift is a standard 8F,4R speed, shift on the fly tranny.
I really liked the powershift setup on out 4020/4520/4620 DSL & LPs. We never saw power loss, were pulling 6 row equipment in the TX/OK panhandle.
Personally if I was looking for a JD and It came down to two tractors one with sychro,and one with a powershift..... .POWERSHIFT ever time. no questions asked. That tranny is pretty much bullit proof.
Later,
John A.

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farmerboybill

09-13-2004 19:49:02




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to Doug Rogers, 09-13-2004 10:29:51  
From my understanding, the powershift takes 5 - 15 hp on the New Gen tractors to operate. This would make the 95 hp 4020 into a 80-90 hp tractor. Dad has a synchro range 4020 and a power shift 4640. The power loss from the powershift is not as apparant on the 160 horse tractor but would be noticable on a 3020 or 4020.

I do not like the powershift in the 4640 and would much prefer a Quad range. It's a very jerky transmission and you'd find yourself using the clutch anyway.

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John A.

09-13-2004 21:10:37




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to farmerboybill, 09-13-2004 19:49:02  
farmerboybill, I agree the 4640 PS was not as good a setup as the 20 and 30 series. It boils down to the 1.5 mph jump from 4th to 5th. 5th was pretty much worthless to us.
Also our old 4630 would handle a 650 A&L grain cart,fully loaded, from the far end of the field in High gear. Our 4640 PS fell on its face, also the 4640 Quads fell on their face in this application. On grain cart was the only place our 4630 really shined. Anyway just my experiences here.
Later,
John A.

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BEN in KS

09-13-2004 16:22:05




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to Doug Rogers, 09-13-2004 10:29:51  
I had a "66 4020 with powershift for twenty years. I used it with a loader and thought that it worked fairly well. To go from first and back to reverse was just a flick of the hand. The "inching pedal" vs the clutch was really nice for hitching/unhitching or when moving a big load high on the loader, i.e. large round bale high up into shed, etc. From what I"ve seen the new powershifts are MUCH better and smoother.

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big jt

09-13-2004 13:45:18




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to Doug Rogers, 09-13-2004 10:29:51  
I am somewhat familiar with both. Have driven powershifts and we own a 3020 with synchro range.

The powershift allows clutchless gear and direction changes. Deere's Synchro range had four nonsynchronized ranges with a "hi low reverse" synchronized gearset connected to that.

IMHO the powershift has some opernational problems especially for loader work. 1. to go from foward to reverse and vice versa you need to go through all lower gears and back up to the desired gear in the other direction the synchro has the logical working speeds in a straight line. 2. Can't remember which gears but the powershift has a couple of gears where you are trying to shift a bunch of clutchpacks at the same time and it really sucks the power (on a 3020 you will kill the engine unless it is wound up)

JM2CW

JT

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JMS/MN

09-14-2004 08:03:38




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to big jt, 09-13-2004 13:45:18  
Over the last 31 years I've had 5 PS tractors- still have 4 of them. Will never have a synchro or quad. 15 speed on the 4450 MFWD is an improvement with more speed choices and smaller increments. 3020 PS is my loader tractor- will load circles around any synchro. You don't go through all the gears to reverse- you pass them by! Simple 'J' pattern with 8 forward on the right side, 4 reverses on the left. JD mechanic told me you lose about 4hp on the 4020 PS vs the synchro. Synchro is cheaper to repair, but you do it more often.

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big jt

09-14-2004 10:42:05




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to JMS/MN, 09-14-2004 08:03:38  
I knew I would be bucking some preferences. Our 3020 was the big tractor on 240 acres for the first ten years and has been the loader tractor ever since. We have as of yet to open up the transmission.

You are correct that you don"t have to shift through all the gears. However you do have to move the lever through the positions. The synchro has the logical speeds with direction change in a straight line.

I would tend to agree with you on the quad. All it is, is a synchro with a TA added.

If the use is field work the power shift would be my choice hands down. For loader work I would lean towards the synchro. But that is what I am most familiar with.

JT

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JMS/MN

09-15-2004 11:41:15




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to big jt, 09-14-2004 10:42:05  
big JT-my loader tractor is the only one I had any PS problems with- bought it with 5xxx hours on a non-working hour meter. After two years the tranny went out, JD mechanic said it looks like a plantation tractor (I bought it from a jockey). Been working fine since, after a 1980 $2500 rebuild. I could never get used to a synchro- drove some, but never liked the system. Granted, it is what you get used to. Familiarity- good choice of words. In the early days I had some hired help, then mrs and kids- one reason to get all field and yard tractors with the same tranny, etc. They could switch from one to another without missing a beat. I grew up with AC, but farm with JD and some AC. Still like the orange.

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kyhayman

09-13-2004 11:11:43




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to Doug Rogers, 09-13-2004 10:29:51  
At great risk here as I am not familiar with the internal specifics of JD's sychro shift generally speaking:

power shift: uses single or multiple plantary gears sets and a with wet clutches that work of the shift lever. Shifts like a car with an automatic where you shift 1-3 with the lever and lacks a torque converter. Uses an inching pedal as opposed to a clutch to allow for hooking and unhooking equipment.

synchonized transmissions: like a modern manual transmission in a vehicle. Allows shifting while moving with using the clutch pedal between the synchronized gears, need to be at a stop to shift between the unsynchized gears.

Given the same engine a powershift typcally consumes more power in the transmission for the extra volume of flowing oil and corrsponding waste heat than synchonized or unsynchronized transmissions. My personal bias is in favor of a fully synchronized transmission over either power shift or unsychronized. Once again, only general statements, only direct experience with a 4020 is on the engine.

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Bob

09-13-2004 10:34:42




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 Re: synchro vs powershift in reply to Doug Rogers, 09-13-2004 10:29:51  
The synchro is a partially synchronized collar-shift transmission that requires the use of the clutch for shifts, and a complete stop to shift ranges.

The power shift uses multiple disc wet clutches and planetary gearsets much like an automotive automatic tranmission. There is no torque convertor, though. Use of the clutch is not needed to shift from a standstill all the way through the gears.

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