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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT: legalities of selling a car.

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Bob

07-22-2004 07:43:28




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I sold my 1996 Escort yesterday to a guy for $650. I signed the title over to him and I took my License plate. My mother says that I should have went to the Secratary of state with the guy to make sure that the car is registered with him and not me, Because according to my mom if the guy kills somebody with my car, (even though he owns it now) and I have a recipt of sale I am responsible for it. I have asked other people I work with if I could be held accountable for the felony of someone else and a couple of guys I work with think that my mother doesnt know diddly. My mother is 62 years old and a retired insurance agent. To put it in perspective, after I sell the car and sign the title over to him it is up to him to get plates and make it legal, not me. Also if you think along the lines of my mothers thinking if someone were to steal my car and commmit bankrobbery or kill someone in an accident I would be responsible, sounds stupid doesnt it. I called a local Secratary of state office and the lady says almost no one sells a car and goes to the Sec. of state and does all the paper work at one time with the buyer. The lady says that I should have a bill of sale and my old plate which I do. Give me some thoughts on this here because I think my mother is being paranoid. I live in the state of Michigan.

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Leland

07-23-2004 20:58:18




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
I guess if something did happen you could report it stolen



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gspig

07-23-2004 05:36:12




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Wife had a problem like that. No one was injured, but the person that bought the car never registered or applied for title. The car broke down and he abandoned it. Wife was sent a towing and storage bill from a city 2 hours away. She had a bill of sale to the guy and the city left her alone.

When I sell a car, I go the the county courthouse with the buyer and transfer title before I turn the car over. I had sold a car and the new owner never titled or registered the car. The state wouldn't let me register my car until the taxes were paid for the sold car. I didn't have the bill of sale, sold the car 4 years before. I paid the back taxes and junked the title.

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Mark - IN.

07-22-2004 21:12:36




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Your mother loves you dearly and means well. She is a retired insurance agent? She may know more than a lot of others, having been an insider. My thoughts? Go down to your DMV/Secretary of States Office/Drivers License Branch and see someone face to face with documents and plates in hand. As a phone guy that often hits state accounts, I shudder at some of the things I hear customers being told by busy employees over the telephone, versus what I whitness when I see two people talking face to face, which often results in a supervisor stepping in with a different answer and set of documents. Go see the guy or lady at the drivers license place, you'll either sleep easier, or your hair will fall out, but at least you'll know for sure. It'll make Mom feel better too.

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Jerry L /az

07-22-2004 21:01:35




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Bob hi, this happend to me sold a car the person I sold it to did not register it in his name he got into an accident the persons yes more than one took me to court and tried to sue me , would have gotten the job done too, the only thing that saved my butt was that I had the sale notarized by a notary. ..... Jer



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JW

07-22-2004 19:50:01




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Before paying for legal advice, you might consider contacting your local law enforcement about the selling of the vehicle and ask for information on how to get the ownership transfered to the buyer. Since they are the ones who do the checking of a vehicle's ID via computer they would have an idea on what route you would need to take and what form is needed to process.



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MarkB

07-22-2004 16:34:24




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Bob,

It's pretty much a moot point now, but I think your mom is right. Just the same, it's pretty rare for someone who is selling a car in Michigan to insist on going straight to the SoS to complete the transaction.

The problem in your case is that someone buying a $650 car doesn't have a lot of incentive to register it. Just slap on a plate from another vehicle on it and go. Since Michigan doesn't require you to turn in your plates when you cancel your insurance, they don't have to pay sales tax, registration or insurance.

Now let's suppose the buyer is involved in a hit-and-run accident and decides to abandon the car. All you have is the bill of sale as evidence that you don't own the vehicle. I'd think that would be sufficient proof, but it could sure cause you some aggravation.

If you're worried about it, check with the SoS in a couple of weeks and verify that the vehicle is no longer in your name.

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RK

07-22-2004 14:01:13




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Most states ask, want, require the seller to notify the DMV within a specified period of time from the date of sale. This helps to cover the behind of the seller in the event of an accident or something more serious. For the states that have this, a tear-off form on the title is filled out and sent or brought to the DMV office.



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paul

07-22-2004 11:30:20




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
You need to talk to a real lawyer, but your mom is somewhat right that in some of the real far-fetched lawsuits we have these days, you would be involved (need to go to court & hire an lawyer to defend yourself) in a case as you describe. Most likely you would not be held responsible at all in the end, but that could be many thousands of dollars later - in a worst case senerio.

The car title is registered to you until the other person changes it, so anything that happens with that car does, in some way, involve you. That is enough to include you in any lawsuits, even if you are not 'really' involved in them. You should see that your name is removed from that title.

--->Paul

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ny

07-22-2004 10:57:11




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
In New York you're required to turn in the license plates. A registered car with out insurance will get you in hot water - I think they suspend your drivers license. So if you sell the car take the plates and turn them into the DMV then cancel your insurance. As far as the other stuff and liability - I'm not a Lawyer so I can't help you with legal advice. Thats also against the law in NY I'm told

You got it job security

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VADAVE

07-22-2004 10:43:57




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
In Virginia on the back of the annual license registration is a place to put the new owners name and address then you are to mail it in. Even if the buyer doesn't switch the title that protects you and tells the state who to charge the taxes to.



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George

07-22-2004 09:47:42




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
The problem you could run into is of the car is used in a hit-and-run or bank robbery before being properly licensed -- if the car if recovered, its VIN will lead a SWAT team to your doorstep because as far as the DMV is concerned, you are the registered owner. So you have a receipt -- do you have a positive identification of the new owner? If you cannot produce the new owner, you could have real legal problems as the police could say you created the receipt after the fact of the illegal act.

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txblu

07-22-2004 09:24:09




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
In Texas, you sign over the title to the buyer and that is the transfer. You also furnish the buyer with a seller's affadavit for the tax man when he goes to get it registered in his name. There is sales tax on his gain and licensing fees.

Rub: The title has a place for the purchaser, not date of sale. Sellers affadavit has one as the law requires the new owner to register the vehicle within 10 days of purchase. Penalty for more than that is $10 flat rate.

If the buyer goes in for regist. and doesn't have one, they can determine what he is going to pay in taxes from a flat rate book.

If you are concerned (in Tx) you can send a letter to the Tx Dept Mot Veh in Austin and tell them what you did and when.

I'm sure a Phil. Lawyer could rock a case both ways with this kind of law, but giving the DMV a heads up helps legitimize your position.

Best thing to do is walk the buyer to the tax office. Then you're done for sure and any outstanding question DMV may have will be answered.

Mark

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tlak

07-23-2004 05:58:02




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 Re: Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to txblu, 07-22-2004 09:24:09  
In Tx it made it simple to sell a car but I would have them sign a bill of sale with name and address because once they drive down the road you don't have any ideal who they are. The state should have a little tear off receipt on the title.



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txblu

07-23-2004 09:57:25




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 Re: Re: Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to tlak, 07-23-2004 05:58:02  
No tear off and bill of sale means nothing.



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tlak

07-23-2004 10:23:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to txblu, 07-23-2004 09:57:25  
I guess you missed the points of what I said. If the state made part of the title a tear off for the buyer to fill out and leave with you then you have a record of who bought the vehicle. The bill of sale was more a document to say to whom and when your car was sold. In TX if you sell a vehicle you just sign the back of the title and if they pay cash you don't know who bought the car. We got calls on cars in the middle of the night from police/MPs asking about our car in whatever trouble even under the old system where you had to go to the court house to transfer the title. Thought all this was pretty clear the first time I said it.

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Nor. Al.

07-22-2004 09:02:17




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
Bob I feel that #1 if you have the liscense plates #2 if you have a copy of the bill of sale then that should be sufficent , down here in Alabama we have a title law and each owner when he sells has to transfer it to buyer and he has to take it with him to get the liscense plates, it is issued by the Dept. of Public safety. I don't known about Michigans laws, but I don't think I would worry too much about it because he will need to buy liscense plates and they will be in his name , he won't be out on the road very long if he tries to run without them.

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Ron

07-22-2004 08:11:27




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 Re: OT: legalities of selling a car. in reply to Bob, 07-22-2004 07:43:28  
You are asking for legal advice and need to talk to an attorney. The State Attorney's General Office has staff lawyers who can help you.



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