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ENGINE REBUILD HELP!!

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Steve

07-17-2004 18:25:02




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Guys yall help me out again. I posted a message a few days ago about my Case 300 new rebuild a few pages back. One of the head bolts was leaking water out of the top of it after cranking it up for the first time. I pulled the head off and I could not seem ot figure out what it was. The only thing was that the first two cylinders had really smutty, slimey, black oil on top of the pistons. I dont know if the leak is because of the head gasket not sealing or the head has a crack in it. Like I said a few pages ago I just had the head rebuilt and I dont know if the machinest magna-fluxed it or not. There are two water jacket holes approximately 1/4 of a inch away from this head bolt. I tried K&W block seal and also pulled the bolt out while the head was still on and put some permatex sealer on the end of the bolt and reinstalled it, and it still kept leaking? any sugggestions please!!

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wdTom

07-18-2004 17:49:18




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Steve, 07-17-2004 18:25:02  
I have seen a head bolt or stuc leak when it screwed into a waterjacket. Need to put sealer on the threads in this case.



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RAB

07-18-2004 00:53:34




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Steve, 07-17-2004 18:25:02  
Don't know, but does this engine have liners? If it does, have you checked for liner height?
Also check the deck for straightness - no point in trying to pull down a flat head onto a warped deck! Blocks can also have cracks.
Follow the gasket manufacturers advice on installing. They will advise whether to paint with paint, grease, or copper sealant or to install dry.
What I will say is that most of the gaskets which I have installed and leaked were all my fault. Not checking well enough, dodgy quality of gasket, ignoring warning signs, so check everything including gasket, make sure everything is in spec, follow the installation spec meticulously and you won't go wrong.
Last of all, get some advice from a well experienced rebuilder as to your tools, methodology etc as you do it, if you are not experienced at this sort of thing.
Regards, RAB

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Davis In SC

07-17-2004 20:47:26




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Steve, 07-17-2004 18:25:02  
I do not always agree with Ron, but this time I do.... You have put a lot of time , money & effort into this engine... I would pull the head & get it checked. Better to lose the cost of a head gasket than the whole lower end because of a glycol/oil mix trashing the bearings & crank !!! Regards, Davis



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Ron

07-17-2004 19:17:57




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 Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Steve, 07-17-2004 18:25:02  
At this point it's all academic. Take the head back to the shop and have them dig into it. Like I said earlier, it's very likely warped. They know how to check it for warp and can machine it flat. You'll also need a new gasket.



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Steve

07-17-2004 19:34:48




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 Re: Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Ron, 07-17-2004 19:17:57  
Ron the machine shop just machined (decked or milled) my head level. Also should I use a copper spray on gasket, when I put the head back on. I sprayed it on this last head gasket I installed. But where is the water coming from?



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Ron

07-18-2004 03:44:34




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 Re: Re: Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Steve, 07-17-2004 19:34:48  
Every gasket manufacturer has a recommendation for each type gasket they sell. If you use sealer on a type that shouldn't have it, it will leak, every time. If you use the wrong sealer, it will leak, every time. Generally, most modern gaskets are either teflon or silicone coated. They are very smooth to the touch. They are never sealed. Older composition or copper gaskets are usually sealed but you must use the right sealer. If you don't have the instructions that came with the gasket, call their 800# or look on their website.

Coolant leaking into the combustion chamber(s) comes from a gasket not sealing due to several different reasons, a cracked head, or a cracked block. Without seeing the engine I can't be positive but because you have an oil/coolant mixture in two adjacent cylinders the gasket is not sealing across both cylinders and a coolant passage in between them.

Milled or not, the head surface must be checked for warp. The head must be magnafluxed. New head bolts must be obtained unless you rolled them and they are dead straight and the threads are perfect. The bolts must be installed per the manual. Some engines have head bolts that get lightly oiled (to get the correct torque), others have bolts that must have sealer. The correct torque values must be obtained through the correct stepped pattern with an accurate torque wrench. The deck must also be checked with a steel. The service manual has the allowable warp for head and deck. It's usually something like .001" per 12" of head length but don't take this as gospel. You must verify you have the correct gasket and are installing it correctly. When you have this type of problem, you assume nothing and check everything.

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Burr

07-17-2004 20:14:10




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 Re: Re: Re: ENGINE REBUILD HELP!! in reply to Steve, 07-17-2004 19:34:48  
Steve the way we rebuild the old engines is a little different to what the book calls for.

Aluminum paint is better on the headgasket than coppercoat. Don't be stingy with it put a good coat on the block, gasket, and head.

Let the paint start getting tacky then install the head as usual.

Follow your torque sequence and torque the head to specs.

When you have the engine back together crank it and let it idle but cover the radiator with cardboard or a blanket and bring the engine temp up as the engine idles.

When the engine is up to normal operating temp shut it off. Now loosen each head bolt (one head bolt at a time in sequence) 1/2 round and retorque to spec while the engine is still hot.

I would bet you did'nt have a problem to start with if you had known how to do it.

The old engines are simple enough to work on but the repair manuals don't cover fine tweaks.

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