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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

OT how deep to back fill around trees???

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Kent

05-22-2004 20:05:25




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I am in the process of building a new home and my basement is ready to back fill. I will have more than enough dirt and want to make a gentle grade. The problem is some of the bigger oak trees @3' across or so are in the "gentle grade" area and I was wondering how much can I fill around them without killing them?? I was told only fill in the area between the exposed roots at the base, I want to keep all of these trees, I had to "put one down" already @55" across and it about killed me. Any suggestions? Thanks Kent

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Kent

05-23-2004 20:26:34




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
Thanks to all that replied, that is the kind of answers I was looking for. I had the basement dug @ 1.5 months ago and that dirt from the dig has been sitting on @ 4 or 5 bigger oak's drip line. I am assuming I need to move it ASAP. Thanks, Kent



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John A

05-23-2004 05:59:08




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
Kent, Only 1 inch / year of soil can be safely added to trees, to elevate your lawn grade.
I have seen large and small trees killed quicker than a dog can turn a circle while chaseing its tail.
If the grade is not too far off use leaf mulch to help. It isn't as heavy as soil and won't cut the O2 off from the roots. But still only go 1 & 1/2 inch of leaf mulch.
I to have the large Live Oaks here in central Texas. ( the kind that it take 3 grown men to reach around), 250 yrs old + trees. So I understand your delima. Keep dyou addition of soil thin, and once / yr. You should be in good shape. I uncovered If I can be of futher help.
Later,
John A.

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Farmered

05-23-2004 05:23:24




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
About 3 feet of fill was added when a new school was built in my hometown in 1927. The beautiful sugar maples were protected by laying up a stone dry well around each tree. These trees were still
doing well after 75 years. We had a lot of fun using those wells for forts when we were kids. Ed



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bo

05-23-2004 03:36:38




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
Good advise. Don't do it. Some trees you can and they will shoot out feeder roots. Trees that are real quick growers like Poplar, Silver Maple, Weeping Willow. What they all have in common is that they are a wet tree,,essentially draw up a lot of water and are, by nature, a weak tree.

An oak...white, red, live and others won't tolerate nothing at their drip line. As was said..they'll take a few years but they will die. You might get away with back filling one side so the other side is undisturbed but the risk is still there.

We live in a white/red oak ridge and some subdivisions have gone in. The contractors have attempted to save some of the trees but the chainsaws have come out about 3-4 years later. People think they can save the trees but when you tear into a forest, they have forest trees,,poorly shaped, that is, they grow straight up with little branching and are essentially sticks and once the forest soil is removed or the tree is back filled,,,it's over for the tree.

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Kurt (mi)

05-23-2004 02:34:11




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
I have been told by two different sources that you can fill around trees 1" per year. ANd if you think about it in a heavily wooded area wear you would get 1/2" or more of leaves falling every year and decomposing into dirt, topsoil this would be somewhat correct. Also I have been told that you dont want to much dozer work done around trees because the vibration of the dozer will kill the root system, I dont know if this is true. I built a house 4 years ago and I do not have a basement. I have dense hardwoods all around my house I am sure that If I had a basement I would have had to drop more trees, which I would have not liked.

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Steve

05-22-2004 21:53:33




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
The previous recommendations are good ones. Overall, try to disturb as little soil as possible around an old tree (to the drip line). If you absolutely have to move some soil, do it by hand with a rake, shovel, wheel-barrel, etc and add only a few inches of soil. I went through this in our new subdivision. The original developer 8 years ago realigned the entire road to save a huge beatiful white oak that was 3 foot across at the base. He wasted his time. He moved the gravel road a whopping 15-feet away and then put a driveway in on the other side of the tree just 10-feet away!!! It slowly died and I had to cut it down a year ago.
Hated to see it go. Counted about 80 rings on the tree trunk. I even called an arborist out to look at it and he said it couldn't be saved thanks to the movement of the dirt, the road, driveway, and disturbing the roots. The arborist said to watch in new subdivisions where you'll see a lot of trees die off in the 5-10 year range after the initial road and homebuilding.

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jls

05-22-2004 20:29:19




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
NONE AT ALL> honestly, worked as an arborist and trees are like people, what won't hurt one will kill another and there is no predicting which is which. trick is you don't want to smother the roots. problem is most equip operators don't know when to stop and get off the tractor. they move a few inches of dirt which would be ok BUT they do it in the mud, use clay which seals down and then use tires to pack it down nice and hard. have spread a foot BY HAND just raked the top feathered it out to nothing on less than half the drip line area of the tree and had no problems. Also spent lots of days in new developments aerating trees trying to save them from just a few inches. also footer drains and new ditches change the water levels on the roots and kill quite a few trees here in waterlogged NE ohio.

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Ray

05-22-2004 20:22:35




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 Re: OT how deep to back fill around trees??? in reply to Kent, 05-22-2004 20:05:25  
An arborist friend told me that the older the tree, the less tolerant they were for fill. The safest way is not to fill at all under the drip line (the edge of the area shaded by the canopy.) If you have to fill closer, build a wall to keep the soil from slumping in towards the trunk. Less than a foot of fill probably isn't too bad, the more you exceed that, and the older the tree is, the bigger the potential problem. Young trees are pretty tolerant, old ones aren't (kind of like people when you think of it.)

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