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ford truck engines

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corbin

05-17-2004 18:49:38




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Hello this is a great site for my tractor projects. right now I'm fixing up my pickups . is there any web sites like this for older fords? This is my dilemma.400m &460 whats interchangeable?




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Van in AR

05-18-2004 23:22:50




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
The 460 will bolt up and work with your tranny, etc, no parts on the motors interchange except the accessories, ie alternator and distributor. Check out L and L on the web, they have headers and mounts and can fix you up for about $500.
Van



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Jack in Fla

05-18-2004 18:49:49




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
Corbin, I have fooled with many 460's. The bellhousing off 400M will bolt up, Flywheel will not,(its Small bolt pattern). For flywheel I used one off a 360-390 Engine, (same bolt pattern as 460), and clutch assy, I think 12 inch, also had a ZF 5 spd to,real nice. 16-17 miles to the gallon on the 460. This was a half ton 77 Yr, that came stock with 400M,and auto. (Junk in my book). For motor mounts used 360-390 pickup mounts, and turn catty conor and you have to rattail file one of the holes to elongate the bolt holes to mach up with 460 bolt pattern, works fine. Email me and I will give u my phone no and talk to u about it. Can also tell you how to put a Hei G M dist into that 460 with little mods, with the right HEI. Jack in Fla

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corbin

05-18-2004 17:23:01




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
Thanks for the info,heres the deal I have a 400 that threw a rod I have alot of performance parts,carb manifold headers distributer. that I'd like to put on a 460 that I bought.



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Mike M

05-18-2004 04:52:52




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
If you want to put a 460 in place of a 400M it can be done. Some company makes a engine mount I forget the name. The 460 is longer and you may have to move tranny back a bit plus enlarge oil filter hole in crossmember.If you have a manual trans. it gets tricky to find the right flywheel clutch set up. Good Luck.



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Dan in Wisconsin

05-18-2004 04:19:57




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
I don't believe anything is interchangeable between a 400 and a 460. The 351M and the 400 share the same block or so I'm told. The 400 has the same bore as the 351M but a 1/2" longer stroke. Not familiar with the 351W but it has the same bore (4.00") and stroke (3.50") as the 351M. I've always been lead to believe the Windsor is the better of the two engines. Usually better gas mileage also , supposedly. Important now-a-days.

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DavidO

05-18-2004 04:19:37




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
No such thing as 400 Cleveland or 400 Windsor, although the 400 was based on the Cleveland design. The 351M is a 400 with a short stroke crankshaft. The Windsor series ,289,302,351, is a totally diferent design. As far as interchangeability, the 400 (and 351M) use the same transmission bolt pattern as the 429/460 and transmissions that fit one will fit all. Some other parts are interchangeable. The heads from a Cleveland should work on a 400. I believe that the intake manifold and distributor are also interchangeable. If you want a really reliable, economical, pretty strong engine, go with the 351W. If you are looking to do a lot of heavy towing and gas mileage is lower priority, you can't do better than the 460.

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dhermesc

05-18-2004 06:04:17




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 Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to DavidO, 05-18-2004 04:19:37  
Agree with you on the 400M, 400W and the 400C statement - none of those engines ever existed. Ford only made one 400 and it was known simply as the "400" and it was in the same block family as the 351M. The 351M was the "big block" (not really accurate either) bolt pattern evolution of the 351C along with some other modifications.

Both the 351M and 400 in pickups & light trucks where reliable and produced decent power for their day but where fuel hungry. Both where dropped from production in 1982 due to their inability to meet emission standards. From then till 1997 your V8 choices where limited to three the 302, the 351W and the 460 (in limited applications). From 1997 to now your choices are even more limited the 4.6 or the 5.4 - neither does much for me.

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luckydog

05-18-2004 10:04:49




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 Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to dhermesc, 05-18-2004 06:04:17  
If you are truthful why is it that my and many that I have looked at (1988 Ford F250) have a 351M engine in them? Not trying to start something just a question.



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dhermesc

05-18-2004 14:39:47




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to luckydog, 05-18-2004 10:04:49  
They are 351Ws

1979 was the last year the 351M/400 engines were produced in large numbers. With the continuing effects of the OPEC oil embargo and the ever-increasing pollution and gas mileage restrictions coming out of Washington, Ford decided to to use the I-6, 302, and 351W engines in the new line of light-duty trucks Ford was developing for the 1980 model year. This meant that end of the 351M/400 engine was finally carved in stone because Ford decided to phase out the production of 351M/400. Oddly enough, Ford continued to install the 351M in some early 80s model Broncos and both the 351M/400 in some of the F-250 and F-350 trucks until the last one was used in 1982.

Although the 335 engine series was only 11 years old when it was discontinued, it was scraped in favor of the lighter, cheaper-to-produce 302/351 Windsor engines. So ended the era of the great Cleveland based engines from Ford.

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dhermesc

05-18-2004 06:09:27




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 Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to dhermesc, 05-18-2004 06:04:17  
Going bak to your original question of what is interchangable between the 400 and the 460 - other then some of the carbs very little if anything will swap. The 460 is just a whole "size" bigger then the 400.

As mentioned earlier the entire engines can be swapped out (with mods for the oil filter when going from 400 to 460) as they share the "big block" transmission bolt pattern.



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jdemaris

05-17-2004 19:14:45




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 Re: ford truck engines in reply to corbin, 05-17-2004 18:49:38  
Yes, go to :
Link

As far as your engines go, I'm not a Ford gas-engine expert, but as I recall - the 400M is part of a series of engines base on the original small block 221-260-289-302, but with higher cylinders. There was a 400 Cleveland, 400 Windsor, and 400 Modified which all interchanged to a degree. The 460 (Lincoln based engine) is a big-block and is larger and heavier. So, I assume a swap will take some modification - but ask an expert.

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Loren

05-17-2004 21:39:30




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 Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to jdemaris, 05-17-2004 19:14:45  
400 Cleveland and Windsor? Never heard of that in 19 years of repair. 351's yes. The Cleveland and Windsor don't share hardly anything but the name. Sorry but I can't remember if the 400M and 460 will interchange. Seems they will since the manifold ports are so similar. If you're looking to bolt one in place of the other check a trans shop or wrecking yard for interchangeability. For changing parts between the engines a application listing on a overhaul gasket set will tell a lot.

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jdemaris

05-18-2004 05:44:45




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 Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to Loren, 05-17-2004 21:39:30  
Well, you not ever hearing about them does not strike them out of existence. There were lots of them around 20 years ago - in fact, they're still around. I've had, and worked on many of them. I'm a Chevy fan and (I almost hate to admit it)but I have messed with a few Fords. I used to race Sunbeam Tigers and Mustangs back in the 60s - early 70s. The Tiger (aka Poor Man's Cobra) was a British sports car that was redesigned by Carlol Shelby to use the 260 Ford small block V-8, Ford cast-iron 4 speed trans, and Jeep rear. That was in 1964. It was later upped to the 289. I put a 351 Cleveland in one, and a 351 Windsor in another - both almost a bolt-in swap. The 221, 260, 289, and some 302s and 351s were Windsor engines. The Cleveland 351 was made around 1970-1974. As I recall, the Boss 302 was also a Cleveland. Then there is the 351 and 400 M (M for Modified) that came out, but I'm not sure of the year range. The following is not written by me, it came off a website at:>Link

Ford>Link V8 Engine Differences

"There are different types of Ford engine's including the Windsor, Cleveland, FE, and Big Block types. The 289 is the smallest of the popular Windsor engines. It was produced from '63-'68 and is very similar to the 302 except for the stroke. Most all 289's and 302's have mechanical camshafts and press in studs. A 289 has a 4.00x2.870 Bore and Stroke while the 302 has 4.00x3.00. The 302 Boss and SVO has the same Bore and Stroke. The 302 manufactured from '85 and up has roller type camshafts.

The 351 Windsor is the biggest smallblock Ford engines. It has a Bore and Stroke of 4.00x.3.50. It was made at the Windsor, Ontario plant. The 351 has a beefier block than the 302/289 but has the same bore spacing and bore diameter, so the heads retrofit. The deck height is taller and the Mail journals larger. Camshafts interchange but the 351W has a different firing order except for the '82 and later 302HO. The Windsor has been in production since '69.

The 351 Cleveland is in a class by itself and entered the scene in 1970 until 1974. It has canted valves and multi-groove keepers, hydraulic cam, pedestal -mounted rocker arms that are retained with cap bolts. Two types of heads where made they were the 2V and 4V. The 2V heads have open chambers with rounded ports, while the 4V has quench combustion chambers with larger rounded intake and exhaust ports. A 351C Cobra-Jet appeared in '71 with 4-bolt main caps. A 351C Boss also came out in '71 with 4V type chamber head with pedestals machined to accept a 302 Boss type valve train and mechanical cam. In '72 open chamber heads were used with a flat top piston and the name changed to 351C HO.

The 289/302/351 engines use a front cover and water exists the intake manifold face of the cylinder head through the intake manifold to the radiator. 351C/351M/400 engines do not use a front cover instead the block extends out to cover the timing chain and water exist the block face.

The FE engines are the 390/427/428 engines and are different from all other Ford engines. The 390 is set up basically the same as other engines but nothing interchanges with them. The 427 engines are overhead cam and are extremely powerful sincewise they were used in AC Cobra's. In '64 a 427 could be ordered over the counter and had 625 HP stock. The 428 isn't much different but is not overhead cam.

The last of the Ford engines are the Big Blocks 429/460. 429's were available from '68-'73 and named Cobra-Jet, Super Cobra-Jet, and Boss. Basically the 429 was a wedge engine with hydraulic cam, 2-bolt main caps, and 2V or 4V carbs. Cast iron rail rocker arms were mounted on non-adjustable, positive stop studs until '72. Then shared the same mounts as the Cleveland. The 460 is a stroked 429. The CJ had a hotter cam, larger carb, bigger port heads and valves. The SCJ had 4 bolt mains mechanical cam, adjustable non-positive stop rocker arm studs, stamped rockers arms push rod guide plates. The pistons are forged aluminum and con rod bolt seats are spot faced. The Boss had aluminum heads and hemi combustion chambers."

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Loren

05-18-2004 19:07:49




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to jdemaris, 05-18-2004 05:44:45  
Still confused. Where are the 400 Cleveland and 400 Windsor's? I, just like you and anyone else remotely involved with vehicles, have seen gobs of 400M's , 351 Clevelands and bazillions of 351W's. Never seen a 400 C or W.



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jdemaris

05-18-2004 19:40:43




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to Loren, 05-18-2004 19:07:49  
I just realized what your are referring to. I never heard of a 400 W or C either. I was referring to 351 W,C, or M, and the 400M. I looked back at one of my earlier posts and see where I made a TYPO. Maybe I'm getting senile, maybe I need glasses - or, I don't know - maybe I can just blame it on those d*mn Fords. I've had enough 400s to worry about in the Chevy family, much less Ford. Anyway, I didn't type what was going on in my head, sorry.

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Loren

05-18-2004 20:00:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to jdemaris, 05-18-2004 19:40:43  
Now it all makes sense. LoL.



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JerryG

05-23-2004 18:07:45




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to Loren, 05-18-2004 20:00:17  
The 351M and 400 were the same engine design. The deck was taller on the 400. The transmission bolt pattern is the same between the 351M/400 and the 429/460 385 series engines. You have to use the flywheel for the specific engine that your using. The Boss 302 was also mentioned. It uses a 90 degree 289/302 block with Cleveland type heads. The intake is a special item that only works on this engine. The 351W is the same engine design as the 289/302. The 351W did have a higher deck so that a longer rod and stroke could be had. The crank also had larger journals.

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Murph

07-18-2004 11:33:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ford truck engines in reply to JerryG, 05-23-2004 18:07:45  
The 351M and 400 engines do not have different deck heights. In fact they share the same block and practily every other part except crank and pistons. 351M 4"bore x 3.5" stroke, 400 4" bore x 4" stroke. Yes these 2 engines bolt to the same trans as a 429/460.



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