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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Addicted to starting fluid?

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Rusty in NWF

04-26-2004 19:17:50




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I have always herd that a diesel engine can become addicted to starting fluid . For example having to use starting fluid every time it's started. Is this true and how could you break the habit.




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txblu

04-27-2004 06:06:09




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 Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Rusty in NWF, 04-26-2004 19:17:50  
Overhaul it! Been there done that.



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jdemaris

04-27-2004 05:18:58




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 Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Rusty in NWF, 04-26-2004 19:17:50  
YES, IT IS TRUE in many cases. We had that experience with many machines at our Deere dealership including our own rentals and customer's machines. What usually happens is an engine is not starting well for some mechanical reason, that may or may not be a serious one. Then the user overloads it with ether to the point that the top piston rings shatter and ruin the ring-grooves in the pistons. After that, there's not a chance of starting the thing again without the ether. Suprisingly though, many of these engines that have no top rings left at all still run pretty good once they're hot. We had crawlers we rented with new engines in them that got ruined their first time out on rental. We got so we didn't rent them anymore in the dead of winter if they couldn't be plugged in. Someone would rent one, park it in the woods, try to start it the next morning at zero degrees or below, overload it with ether and bust it all up. Moderate ether use is fine in direct injected engines - but the key word is MODERATE. In indirect injected engines with precombustion chambers and glow-plugs, it should not be used at all. It will not only crack the piston rings, it will often crack the precombustion chambers and/or the head also. I just got done checking over a Ford truck with the I.H. 7.3 diesel and indirect injection. The block heater burned out this winter, so the guy plumbed an ether line from the driver's compartment into his air cleaner and used ether every cold winter morning to start the truck. Now, spring is here and the truck won't start at 60 degrees on it's own - even with new glow plugs, and the guy is wondering why?

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hay

04-27-2004 02:45:20




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 Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Rusty in NWF, 04-26-2004 19:17:50  
starting fluid really should not be used too liberally. if an engine needs it to get started every time, then there is a real problem. i would suspect a compression leak from the piston rings or a valve leak in the head.



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mike

04-26-2004 22:48:27




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 Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Rusty in NWF, 04-26-2004 19:17:50  
there are people who believe both ways and true if the person or persons using the either have no clue how to use it it can cause damage saw it happen to a case diesel i was around in a rock pit and the truck driver used almost a half can to start the loader about six months later it broke crank. never use it on a motor with glow plugs unless they are disabled and only spray a tiny bit WHILE it is turning over never spray it in then turn it over . so me no i do not believe it is addictive UNLESS YOU USE IT WRONG AND DO DAMAGE. IMHO mike

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Jonathan

04-26-2004 20:00:35




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 Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Rusty in NWF, 04-26-2004 19:17:50  
Yes it is true!, basically when the rings become worn (constant either use leads to accelerated wear due to the high pressure loads put upon them by the either), the compression becomes poor, due to compression leakage past the rings and diesels need the heat generated by high compression to ignite the fuel. Either doesn't need much heat to ignite, so thats why it is used. You can fix the problem by overhauling the engine and replacing the rings and makeing sure that the bores are smooth (you will most likely have to take out the ridges made by the old rings with a cylinder hone), so that the new rings will properly seal.

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RT

04-26-2004 21:02:24




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 Re: Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Jonathan, 04-26-2004 20:00:35  
Jonathan, Not to be critical but you take the ridge out with a ridge reamer not a hone. RT.



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Jonathan

04-26-2004 20:49:21




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 Re: Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Jonathan, 04-26-2004 20:00:35  
I would also like to add that compression leakage can be at the valves too. Badley worn valve guides lead to the valve not closing properly. Basically it's very good practice to have the head(s) checked out by a machine shop to make sure everything is in good shape before you reinstall it on a rebuild.



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twopop

04-26-2004 19:23:54




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 Re: Addicted to starting fluid? in reply to Rusty in NWF, 04-26-2004 19:17:50  
not true



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