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Farm Fuel Dye

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txblu

04-22-2004 05:41:11

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Has anyone had any engine problems that they can blame on the fuel dye?

The stuff isn't oil, and is probably granular, and they put so much in.

Seems it would be hard on the pump.

Thanks

txblu

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scott

04-22-2004 19:57:14

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

Funny you post this today, as I just got stopped in my tri-axle dump for a DOT/IRS fuel check a couple of days ago. The fine is the greater of: $10.00 per gal., or $1000.00 plus the tax due on the amount of fuel in the tank(s). Here in western MA we are stopped all the time to have the tanks dipped. One would be foolish to take the chance, as it is tax evasion and when you mess w/ the IRS you generally loose. I know this is not really the subject of your post, but some of the follow ups you got were not 100% accurate. Sorry I can't offer my 2 cents on the dye, as I don't use that fuel. Seems hard to imagine that it would hurt anything if it can get through a filter.

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txblu

04-23-2004 05:48:29

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to scott, 04-22-2004 19:57:14

Thanks for the reply.

In Texas, they finally quit delivering non-dyed fuel to private customer's tanks (not service stations etc.) Now only dyed is delivered. Next step is highway tank inspections.

I think we all need to be on a level playing field.

txblu

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BobMo

04-22-2004 19:43:22

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

One of these days we're going to lose the farm fuel tax break because of a few guys to cheap to help pay for the highways they drive on. Your local fuel carrier should turn you in if he even suspects that you are fueling your runabout with dyed fuel and the fact that its parked at the farm won't fly..... .

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Alex

04-23-2004 05:00:17

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to BobMo, 04-22-2004 19:43:22

Bob
Your exactly right about helping pay for the roads, but what I can't figure out is why a 20 ton tractor can go down the road with red fuel, but not a 20 ton truck!

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BobMo

04-23-2004 05:17:15

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Re: Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to Alex, 04-23-2004 05:00:17

Alex, the 20 ton tractor is assumed to be part of a farming operation and is on the highway necessary to the farming operation the 20 ton truck is not. The tractor spends the majority of its life in the field the truck spends the majority of its life on roads.....

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txblu

04-22-2004 17:49:59

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

Thanks to all you nice folks who responded. I was just wondering as my farm diesel is really red.

You put my mind at ease and it looks like we had a little fun in the process.

Got more people's opinions than I expected but that was not the reason for the post.

Have a great day and thanks for making mine a little smoother

txblu

Thanks Kim for featuring it.

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marlowe

04-22-2004 17:00:18

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

do you guys know that is a 10,000 doller per gal. fine for running red fuel in ANY truck that is on any road

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jdemaris

04-22-2004 17:47:14

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to marlowe, 04-22-2004 17:00:18

Where did you get those figures from? I read some info. from the Federal Tax website relating to illegal use of non-taxed dyed diesel fuel, and it states a much lower figure -like $10 per gallon fine. Here's a portion of what they have posted:

"By law, untaxed (dyed) fuel is only allowable for off-highway use, such as farm and
construction operations and home heating oil. Such fuel is dyed red to indicate that it is
tax-exempt and to help inspectors quickly identify any questionable use of the fuel.
The state and federal penalty for improperly using untaxed (dyed) fuel is a minimum fine
of $10 a gallon or $1,000, whichever is greater. Since 1997, Pennsylvania has conducted
more than 135,000 diesel fuel inspections, identified 669 violations and collected almost
$1 million in fines. Besides the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, U.S. partners in this program are the
District of Columbia, Internal Revenue Service, U.S. Customs and International Fuel Tax
Agreement (IFTA) members Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts,
New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont.
The Canadian partners include the provinces of Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick and
Nova Scotia, also IFTA members, and Revenue Canada and Canada Customs."

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marlowe

04-22-2004 18:17:37

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Re: Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to jdemaris, 04-22-2004 17:47:14

i should have said it can go UP to 10,000

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T_Bone

04-22-2004 16:26:35

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The IRS is the gov't agency responsible for collecting the fuel tax.

Who in there right mind would want to dance with the IRS?

***********************************************

Hi txblu

From what little I've read about the red dye, it disolves in diesel. Try the Chevron website for more info.

T_Bone

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txblu

04-22-2004 17:46:34

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to T_Bone, 04-22-2004 16:26:35

thanks.

Mark

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buickanddeere...typo corr

04-22-2004 15:46:29

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The Russian Mob in Toronto got busted about 15 years ago for fraud. They were buying dyed fuel and filtering the colour out then selling it with road tax. And pocketing the difference. What got them caught was they were also getting paid for disposing PCB oil at an incinerator. The Mob was just mixing it with gasoline and/or diesel fuel and selling it.

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txblu

04-22-2004 17:45:43

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to buickanddeere...typo corr, 04-22-2004 15:46:29

Those guys always try to circumvent reality don't they.

txblu

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buickanddeere

04-22-2004 15:42:50

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The Russian Mob in Toronto got busted about 15 years ago for fraud. They we buying dyed fuel and filtering the colour out and selling it with tax. What got them caught was they were also getting paid for disposing PCB oil but were just mixing it with gasoline and diesel fuel and selling it.

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mike

04-22-2004 15:36:46

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The only problem I have encountered with dyed diesel is it stopped up a catalytic converter on a newer model Ford truck after running it for a very long time. Eliminate the cat and you wont have a problem.

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Mr. Gearing

04-22-2004 14:02:12

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

txblu, -Go ahead and burn it in the farm pick-up, -it's cheaper and the truck is a write-off too!!!!

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txblu

04-22-2004 17:43:51

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to Mr. Gearing, 04-22-2004 14:02:12

Pickup's gas, sorry. Neighbor burns it (his) in his Dodge diesel.

Thanks,

txblu

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paul in Mich

04-22-2004 11:03:19

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

txblu, I dont know how much red dye they add per 1000 gal of off road fuel, perhaps about as much as you use to dye your kids easter eggs, but it isnt going to hurt your engine. Here in Mich, the on road fuel has green dye. If you're having problems, I would suggest you look elsewhere besides the fuel dye. Thats not to say your fuel couldnt be contaminated elsewise, such as water, rust or dirt. Have you changed the filter on your bulk fuel pump lately?

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txblu

04-22-2004 17:41:50

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to paul in Mich, 04-22-2004 11:03:19

Thanks for the reply.

I don't have a bulk tank per se, a 55 gallon drum in my shop with a hand pump and a new filter. I just thought I'd pitch the question out there and see what happens.

Thanks,

Mark

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john in la

04-22-2004 10:27:29

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The dye may start out as a granule (I do not know) but when it comes from the manufacture it is in a 55 gal drum. It is a thick red liquid and is marked combustible. It is added by the computer to the fuel when loading the transport truck at most racks to make sure it gets in the fuel. There is still one rack in our area that we have to add it ourselves at a rate of 1 gallon per 10,000 gallons or 1/10 gallon per 1000 gallons.
Now if you take the fact that fuel tax in most states is 30-45 ¢ per gallon you will see that if you burn 2000 gallons of diesel or 2/10 gallon of dye you have saved enough to rebuild a injector pump.
Now I do know people that will only burn low sulfur dyed fuel in their equipment. This is dyed truck diesel. They say it easier on the filters and pump than the high sulfur equipment diesel but that may be a personal preface.

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Red Eye jack

04-22-2004 10:02:25

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

I pumped some of the stuff out of the bottom of my farm fuel storage tank and it was some nasty stuff that settled out of the fuel. I've never had any trouble with it, but I think the fuel companies are putting more dye in than is needed.

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txblu

04-22-2004 17:37:37

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to Red Eye jack, 04-22-2004 10:02:25

I agree with that. That is the reason for the question.

Thanks.

Mark

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Kevin (FL)

04-22-2004 09:32:39

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The dye doesn't hurt anything in diesels. All the marine engines, railroad engines and industrial/construction equipment all use the same fuel. The RR locomtives, tugs and towboats are burning anywhere from 50 to 120 GPH per engine--lots of dyed fuel passing through lots of engines with no ill effects.

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Shep VA

04-22-2004 06:58:36

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

Nope, been running red fuel in the tractors, dump trucks, and even some of the Ford diesel farm pickups for years and to date I have never had a pump falure that I could blame on the fuel. We did lose a Waukesha engine pump, but the bearing in the pump locked up and spun the shaft in half, not fuel related but a bearing falure.

I really dont see where there is any difference. I cant even tell any difference in the fuel filters of the engines that run red vs green fuel. I would not worry about it.

Shep's World

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John (C-IL)

04-22-2004 05:49:59

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Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to txblu, 04-22-2004 05:41:11

The dye in untaxed diesel is in a liquid form, and the amount used in an 8000 gallon tanker load is so small it is doubtful that it will cause any problems.

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Dr.EVIL

04-22-2004 08:04:31

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to John (C-IL), 04-22-2004 05:49:59

My Dad drove a fuel transport for 20 yrs. The dye is actually kinda like Jell-o, takes about 1 to 2 quarts to treat a 6500-7000 gal transport load of farm fuel. Stuff sits in a 55 gal. drum right by the loading rack at the tank farms.

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JMS/MN

04-22-2004 07:08:57

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Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to John (C-IL), 04-22-2004 05:49:59

Is the dye actually a paraffin (wax)? Or am I thinking of something else....

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Steve

04-22-2004 16:36:35

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Re: Re: Re: Farm Fuel Dye in reply to JMS/MN, 04-22-2004 07:08:57

Fuel oils can get alge growing in to cause filter problems

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