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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Tractor pull gone bad!

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Tara Z

04-19-2004 21:40:39




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This past weekend we put on an indoor tractor pull in Wisconsin. Things were going extremely well, that should probably should have been our first clue that something bad was coming. It started out when our antique tractor classes began. At first one person sandbagged, then the next sandbagged more, and it just progressed into our biggest entry class. The first place prize money was $202, and people were sandbagging like crazy. One person, I'm not proud to say was a family member, sandbagged and won the class. The flag man didn't stop the first sandbaggers because as he said it, "I made a bad call that really got taken advantage of. I couldn't call anybody on sandbagging because I made a bad decision not to call a person who sandbagged just a little bit." Now all the people that sandbagged are angry at each other and are saying that one is more guilty than the other. I say they are all equally guilty. The fact of the matter is that we are supposed to have another pull in a month. We would really like to put it on but with the cheeting that goes on, does it really pay? Long time friends are turning on each other, and I hate to see that. On Sunday, my dad said at the drivers meeting, well more like yelled, at everyone. He told them that if they planned on cheating they should go home because it wasn't going to be tollerated. He explained to the people that weren't there the day before about the flag mans bad judgement and how as the night went on it was really taken advantage of. On saturday the flagman called people on sandbagging and really cracked down on all the rules. I felt it was the best pull I had ever seen, at least was judged fairly. Some people had a complete fit about some of the judgement, but as the event coordinator, my dad felt that he couldn't undermind the fladmans calls because then things would have turned ugly again. I really need feedback about this whole issue. Please respond freely.

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Pete / Oshkosh

04-23-2004 11:00:50




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
SANDBAGGING: In tractor pulling there are pulls that have a pace tractor in front along the side usually pulling a rope with a plastic bottle. The pullers are to stay the front wheels in line with the bottle and the rear wheel should not get to the bottle. Sandbagging is when drivers pull slower and get behind a put full power and go to fast at the end of the pull. Rules inforcement problem ? YES!!! When the puller slows down, the pace tractor should slow down!!!

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Paul in Mich

04-21-2004 05:02:36




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
Taraz, After seeing all the comments, I still believe that the ones responsible for conducting a fair contest regardless of whether its tractor pulls or tiddly-winks are the people who put on the contest. It doesnt really matter what rules or standards you go by, but whatever they are, they are carried out to the end. If a pace tracter is used, then its use and pace is to be followed by everyone, no exceptions. Non compliance equals disqualification, PERIOD. YOu cant give one puller a pass and then enforce the rule on the next, It just wont work that way. In Baseball, each umpire has his own strike zone, but its the same for both teams. The worst thing an umpire can do is to make a bad call and then hope he can make up for it by making another bad call going the other way. If you are going to attract pullers, you have to have a set of rules, and stick to them yourselves. If you dont, then your event has no credibility and pullers just wont attend, because they wont compete in a corrupt event. You should always require weigh ins on every tractor in every class, and require weigh outs for every trophy run. That is the first puller in a class always gets weighed out, and every one who beats his distance gets weighed out. if you are handing out 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place awards, then the three longest distances get weighed out. Not after everyone has pulled, but immediately after his pull. This may mean many more weigh outs than three, as the pull progresses, but it prevents alterations to the tractor after the pull. You cant expect any puller not to take full advantage of the rules. They can and they will. Its your responsibility, the event managers and officials, to make sure they dont go beyond the rules. If you enforce the rules, the pullers will follow them. If they dont, then you have no obligation to award them, and every obligation to disqualify them, even if its your brother or son. Thats how you get quality pulls. There are no short cuts. Dont let the pullers run the pull, and if they go away whining, then so be it. At least they know you put on an honest event.

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Flyin farmall

04-20-2004 19:00:50




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
Sandbagging,is when a pace tractor is used to maintain a speedlimit,you have a 15 foot or so area between the tractor,and a bouy pulled on a rope,when you lay back from the bouy,then pour on the coals for 25 or so feet,when you need the power.The speed limit is to even out the playing field,between the hot,and the stock tractors.Sometimes it works,sometimes it don't!Marlowe,,what did you think of Glens new motor??Kinda doggy,huh?

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K-Mo

04-20-2004 18:44:06




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
That's what happens when you make it a competition program. It's like a tractor show where the winner has a buddy in the bodyshop do a "Dupont" overhaul while the guy who did his own work and made missing parts is ignored. I don't mind the two standing side by side as long as there are not competing. In my opinion it's the same with pulling. The sure winner will be the owner with the money and machine shop while a guy relying on his own talent and a truely stock tractor will be left in the dirt.
Just my opinion. I know there are those of a different opinion who enjoy competition but it can get ugly.
K-Mo

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marlowe

04-20-2004 14:45:06




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
TARA Z this is not the first time this bunch has done this and every one is just about ready to call is quits if they don't grow up. that smart as$ Huet-- and Schu---- you know the ones should be band for some time from all pulls. a lot of pullers are just plane sick of them. i got DQ last year and DID NOT pis- and mone about it. the rules are rules. YOU ALL DID A GREAT JOB ON THE PULL AND YOUR DAD WORKED HIS A$$ OF ON IT. THANK YOU and if the a$$ would stay home we all can have a good time.TAKE CARE

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rhudsandbagging

04-20-2004 12:16:17




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
sandbagging is an old drag racing word. practice of adding weight to cars to slow them down in non or low paying races. then, removing the weight to allow cars to win in the slower brackets. now it just a term to describe someone that does not try their best early in competation to gain some advantage latter. but i don't see how it would be an advantage in a non timed event.



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paul

04-20-2004 07:38:50




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
Like most here, I have no idea what 'sandbagging' means or how it fouls up a tractor pull. I hope you come back to explain what the heck you are talking about.

Like most races, folks want to win and some want to win at all costs - this makes competitions great, & it also makes everyone who is serious about winning a 'cheater'. It's up to those running the event - from a 'friendly' tractor pull to a NASCAR event to F1 races - to keep people within the rules. It's a bad event if people are allowed to cheat; and it's a bad event if no one has the drive & interest to try to make the biggest/ fastest/ strongest rig that they are allowed to. Most folks will grumble & complain about getting 'caught' but by next week are happy to be running in a fair event & will look for other ways to be within the rules but better than anyone else.

So, I really like Paul from Mich's reply here, I think he is right on. 100%. It's up to the officials running the event, they must enforce the rules, or it's a bad event. The competitiors coming with borderline equipment (if that was the problem???) are pushing the limits, and trying to make your event a better one - as long as the officials do thier job & enforce the rules on everyone. Get serious about enforcement, don't get mad at those showing up with equipment to run in your event.

Not that I understand the problem of 'sandbagging' or what it means?

But I do understand competition, and you need it to have a good event. You need an equal dose of strong officiating.

--->Paul

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Jonathan

04-20-2004 06:29:15




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
Back a couple years ago the local antique pull down at the local field days went very bad. The announcer/official, who pretty much ran the show let people do as they want and didn't enforce any of the rules. The rules are you have to weigh in before the pull and then as soon as you drive off the track your to make a B-line straight for the scales to be reweighed to make sure you weren't cheating. He allowed them to make a pull without reweighing in the end, so I saw from the grandstands people weighing in and then heading back over to their trucks, piling on a bunch of extra weights and then pull, and going back over to their trucks without reweighing, it was totally $%&$& rediculous, people were pulling way overweight and the official didn't care. Me as a spectator totally lost interest in the pull and walked away after watching that for alittle while, there is nothing great about watching people cheat like that.

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George

04-20-2004 06:17:39




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
Seems like pilling sandbags in front of you would be a disadvantage! In other words “WHAT THE HE!! IS SANDBAGGING” referring to here????? Some of us are too dumb to understand. What did these people do?



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ShepFL - sandbaggin means

04-20-2004 05:51:22




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
to conceal or misrepresent one's true position, potential, or intent especially in order to take advantage of. In this case probably misrepresent your tractor HP or capability to win.

Sounds like the Honor System or Gentleman's Agreement was stomped in the dirt here.



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Paul in Mich

04-20-2004 05:49:47




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
TaraZ, The way I see it, it isn't cheating if the officials allow it. You can't expect pullers not to "sandbag" if the flagman allowed some pullers to do it. Don't blame the pullers, blame the flagman, or even the official who allowed the flagman to continue. Its no different than officials allowing the extra step in basketball. If the officials allow it it isnt cheating as long as they allow everyone to do it. It may be bending the rules, but it isn't cheating. They "Steal" bases in baseball every day, but that isnt cheating either. I would suggest that the next time you have a pull, that you make the rules very clear from the onset, and make sure the starters, flagmen, and other officials clearly understand that if they dont do their job, things can get out of hand quickly. I think if your Dad Yelled at the contestants, he yelled at the wrong people. He should have had a serious meeting with all the officials and outline what is expected of them. What should have been done with the first instance of sandbagging, is that if the flagman wasn't enforcing the first sandbagger to pick up tht pace, the pull should have been immediately aborted and the puller get back in line and the pull not count unless he was not heeding the flagmans signals. That would have prevented the domino effect that ensued.

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Newgen

04-20-2004 05:35:41




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
It doesn't matter of 1st prize is $200 or $10, or for that matter a $.50 ribbon, it's amazing what some people will do to win. That's why I gave up pulling 20 years ago--I got tired of seeing friends become enemies. By the way, just what is sandbagging anyway?



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Nebraska Cowman

04-20-2004 04:28:02




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
what are rules for if you don't follow them. what the he** is sandbagging?



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Tim

04-20-2004 04:00:53




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
I'm unedjucated too. What exactly is sandbagging?



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hay

04-20-2004 02:46:07




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
cheating to win seems to be a way of life now. there is nothing too low or sorry for someone to do to win. the real winners are the ones who don't cheat, but sad to say that they often don't get the prize for their efforts.



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stan

04-19-2004 22:25:52




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
for those including my self who have never been to a tracor pull what is sandbagging? How do you find the time to do this? Stan



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Willy-N

04-19-2004 21:52:29




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 Re: Tractor pull gone bad! in reply to Tara Z, 04-19-2004 21:40:39  
Simple, people who cheat to win never realy won! Shame when a trophy means more than fair play. I guess when they look at it on the shelf they can say to themselves I cheated and won that one?? Mark H.



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