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WHATS going on in rural USA

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marlowe

06-19-2007 17:49:28




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we took a road tripe down to ill,mo,and iowa and things sure have changed in all the small towns and looks like iowa has been hit hardest most small towns 600 people or less are ghost towns main streets are just gone. we were south west of Des Moines on sat. morn and and rode around for hrs. just trying to find a place to eat seen no imp. dealers like there used to be sure is sad to see all the old stores closed up and all the people i talked to said it's only going to get worse

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NEIADan

06-20-2007 17:04:12




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
I find many of the posts here interesting and yes the government rural programs and 'walmartization' sure have had an impact. But, maybe we need to look closer to home. That same capitalistic drive to succeed has also turned to greed and lack of community cohesiveneess are the grass roots problem. How many of you would gladly pay the retiring couple down the road a fair price for his land? Or have a son or daughter that would like to farm, but are looked over and lose out to the conglomerate farming. When it comes right down to it our older generations have sold out the backbone of this country in the name of greed. many of this generation did work hard to earn a living for their family, but, in reality it was timing and inflation that made them wealthy.

To summarize don't let this older generation complain because they don't get to see their grandchildren grow up. They all had to move toward the urban areas to find jobs. Resulting in the doomed small town which includes schools, businesses and churches. Those large operations are not to blame it is those landlords that have no sense of community that have a choice. Sad to say it boils down to old fashioned greed

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buickanddeere

06-20-2007 08:43:28




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
I have an adversion to poverty and being at the whim of government/mega corporations, weather, weeds, insects, fire and uncertainty. I went to where the money was then came back when I was able to afford a rural estate without pressure.



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Dennis (VA)

06-20-2007 07:03:40




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
I agree on the Wal Mart effect to an extent but one thing you guys over look is the Farm Program. This program was never designed to help the small, mom and pop farmer who was once considered the back bone of the nation. But, it was designed for the big to get bigger. Receiving the largest or very near the largest subsidy is Ted Turner, ya that one former Owner of CNN, etc. etc. No more one section farms but many section farms and then and now 10's of thousands of acres. With the owner setting in New York. This ran the families off and killed the downtowns as no people needed to shop, go to school or. Instead of a bunch of farmers with the small Fords and IH's, we have one man running a giant Deere, Massey et-al. Around here we have a bunch of 1000 acre + plus farms which is big for this part of the world and one guy does it all.

Want a comparison look at the Euro farm subsidy program designed for the family farmer which results in nice villages, small prosprous farmers, less polution from run off and on and on. Who to blame, well the politions, the guys that buy and own them and the nuts like us who continue to elect them based on the on air pundits who suck up to them while they all pick our pockets.

Want to read more about the subsidy program go to Washingtonpost.com today, they did a three month investigation of where the money goes and who gets it. Buy the way, our leased poltitions are voting on the new subsidy bill today. Guess who it will help. Enough Rant but feel better now.

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john d

06-20-2007 06:44:20




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
Some folks will say it's the "Wal-Martization" of our society. In reality, it's fundamental economics.

In the early 1900s, there was a MAJOR exodus of people from the farm to urban areas. Fewer people on the farms meant less need for small town support. Many small towns across the country simply vanished.

Improved communication and transportation in the last half of the 20th century put even more pressure on small towns. With people commuting to urban areas for work, they shopped there before returning home. Small towns close to major cities became "bedroom" communities, and many have been swallowed by urban sprawl. Small towns too far away to be bedroom communities struggled to maintain the quality of life people wanted, and many people left.

I'm 63 years old. I live about 15 miles outside of Indianapolis on the farm where I grew up. When I moved back to this area in 1970, I was one of three people within a two-mile radius who commuted more than 20 miles to work. Easily 3/4 of the farmers within that radius have since retired. I can only think of one in that area that's under 45 years old. The farms, banks, stores, and everything else are larger today than a generation ago. I think this trend will continue.

As I was driving home a few evenings ago, I started counting the number of houses (or remains of houses) within two miles of my home that had vanished within my memory. I can think of 14. Within that circle also stood one general store, three schools, and two churches that are no longer here. The more rural areas will continue to decline in terms of population and amenities. Suburban sprawl will continue to grow. The pendulum swings....life goes on.

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Cliff Neubauer

06-20-2007 05:48:50




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
CRP has alot to do with it. CRP sucks money out of a community like a vaccum because in most cases the only money going back into the area is property taxes while the land owner spends the payment money in the area they live in.



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dhermesc

06-20-2007 05:46:20




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 Re: Here's what's going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
Where you been? This has been going on for 30 years. The guys below are right - its the Wal-Mart effect (bigger and bigger is better) only it applies to the entire rural industry not just some meaningless box store.

Small towns like that depend on the rural community to survive, their own population isnt enough to support squat. With farms doubling and tripling and more in size every decade means that there are 1/2 to 1/3 the rural households to support the small town businesses every decade. Then couple that with the fact that the average farmer is about 62 years old he probably doesn't have any kids in the house (unless he a spy old guy with a young wife).

The increasing size of the farms has wiped out well over half the households and the increasing age of the farmers has wiped out the 2.3 kids (or in my dad's case the 12 kids) that would have lived in the surviving households. So you've knocked out almost 80% of the rural population that supported those little towns of 800 to 1500 people (and they say their population is getting old too). So the schools shrink, the businesses do a lot less business and everyone on the street has grey hair.

Blame "Wal-Mart" all you want but Wal-Mart doesn't run corner cafes or feed stores or banks (yet) or impliment dealerships or sell barb wire. The population that supported all those businesses just isn't there anymore.

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trucker 40

06-19-2007 20:56:16




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
Yeah,I spent a week about 10 years ago running from Cherokee,Ia to Iowa City,and there was only a place to eat at Iowa City,and a little truck stop somewhere between there then and if you didnt get to that truck stop or Iowa City by I think 5 pm you didnt get much to eat.I wouldnt want to try and spend a week doing that now,most likely junk food is all you can get.As a matter of fact anything that has to do with agriculture has just gone further and further downhill.Maybe those people that only buy at Wal Mart will quit shopping there when they get a good job that pays them better.I didnt really know how messed up things are untill I got sick,and havent been able to work for about a year,in and out of the hospital 4 times,got so broke that if it cost a penny more someplace else,I had to buy at WalMart.Wal Mart aint cheap,and its not good stuff either most usually,but sometimes you dont have anything else to choose from.If you have to work at a factory or something and the price of fuel jumps up and down all the time more people are going to move to the city.Its sad.I did see a lot of this coming,and used to get mad about it,now Im just numb.If everybody would stand up,at the same time,and say we are not going to put up with it any more,it would get fixed.Otherwise you might go to Wal Mart one day and not be able to afford anything they sell,there might not be a grocery store in your town,you might not even have a job,and you better hope you dont get sick,cause you cant afford to go to the doctor now.Now that the country is messed up a lot of what we recognize as America is gone.Its turned into backstabia or something,and it will be worse than Mexico if people dont wake up.

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dan hill

06-20-2007 06:19:22




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to trucker 40, 06-19-2007 20:56:16  
Many small stores have shot themselves.I buy oil dry for 4.00 a bag.My wife asked the counterman in an auto parts store if they had Oil dry,7.50 a bag.Friend likes to check out new stores that open.Saw oil dry at 10.99 a bag at a store we went to.Grain prices are crazy, layer pellets are 8.50 to 10.90 for 50 lb.Same brand.Grocery prices are increasing fast.We have a General store across the highway from us.It has been closed twice.Last owner lost it to the bank.Most small towns around here have lost their general stores.The owner of the Monroe store said he couldnt take in enough many days to pay the help.He closed it.40 years ago we had Massey Ferguson dealer, John Deere,Ford and IHC close by.Small stores are closing all over this area.Small lumber yards are gone.I build picnic tables.There is a good sized lumber yard about 17 miles from me.I bought lumber for 3 tables, told the fellows that loaded it lumber had to look good because it was for tables.I had 5 2x6 x8 that were worthless for a table top in the load.Had to drive 30 miles to a Home Depot where I could hand pick the lumber.Bought enough for 4 tables plus 5 replacments for the junk the smaller yard gave me.Stopped in a large general store that has a big sporting goods dept.Got there about 10 minutes before opening time.Lights were on and clerks were inside.Door was locked.People were out side waiting for gas, a woman wanted some canning jars.A pick up was backed up to the grain door.Door opens 5 minutes late.I looked at some jitterbug fishing lures.They were priced at 8.50 each and were made in china.They had a strange looking paint job and did not look like the old product.I left and bought my gas elsewhere.Walmart still sells them for 5.00.Walmart sells imitation crab meat for 1.88 a pound.Another small store calls it Crab Supreme at 4.49 a pound.I was at walmart to get a dollar can of spray paint to mark some new patterns I made.I noticed a 12 pack of beer I buy for 5.57 I put a pak in my cart.I stopped at a small grocery where it sells for 5.99, it was now 6.99.Where would you buy the beer.As long as small stores act like they have no competition they will go down.My friend asked a store keeper why he no longer stocked the dollar a loaf bread.Store keeper said it didnt sell,Ill bet it killed the sale of the 2.89 bread he sold.A nother gripe is the stores that have a sign on the door No Public Rest Rooms.When you have bounced along frost heaved roads in a 4wd for 30 miles you gotta go.My wife stopped for some veg seeds at a small hardware store on her way to work.Clerk was inside, lights on , made her wait 10 minutes.She wont stop there again.I got to an auto parts store a bit early, Clerk was just going in, said I couldnt come in til 8 am.I left and spent 90.00 at another store.Same thing happened at a shop where I buy small engine parts and trailer parts.I dont buy from them,just send the order to a mail order co that ships fast and pays shipping on a 100.00 order.My shop never has had any set hours.People often leave fence chargers off on their way to work early am.I sold 2 picnic tables to a woman at 7 pm.She called earlier and said her son would be back at 7 with his truck.I guess I could have told here I was closed...

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Matt from CT

06-19-2007 20:07:56




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
Some of it is Wal*Mart effect.

A lot of it is the same reason we *perceive* a decline in U.S. manufacturing.

Even though we produce, inflation adjusted even, a greater value of manufactured goods today then ever in the past. We even make more steel domestically today then in the 1960s.

But between better machines, bigger machines, and increasing robotization...don't need nearly as many people to do the work. So there's a big perception American manufacturing is declining, and while it is in many sectors...in others in makes increasingly valuable products with fewer and fewer workers.

There's a company near me that makes something as relatively simple as fire department hose couplings; their machines run unattended on 2nd and 3rd shift as well as over the weekend. The guys just load up blank stock before they leave for the day and lock the doors. The next morning the baskets are full of items to go through quality assurance and be shipped.

Mechanization and similiar efficiency gains (chemical fertilizers, pesticides, better genetics, better processes) mean fewer people grow more food.

These small towns grew up in a time when you'd hire on crews of drifters and other laborers to work on threshing crews or other farm labor. Today one person in a combine does the work of dozens a century ago, or of several people even 50 years ago.

Combine that with your typical Western Developed World syndrome of not making as many babies as the economy gets going good, you don't have near the employment or the need for employees or the production of kids in rural areas you did years ago.

My "rural" area is disappearing for different factors as suburban populations push into it more and more -- the fields I used to go shooting in as a kid they just announced is going to become a 27 hole golf course and other recreational stuff. Hey, better then tract homes...still the 400 acres was one heck of a nice piece of farmland. All the cornfields in town are now gated off...kind of funny to see the teens who used to hang out in them now stuck in parking lots in the commercial strip in town during the evenings!

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Blue3992 (N Illinois)

06-20-2007 08:58:24




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to Matt from CT, 06-19-2007 20:07:56  
"Even though we produce, inflation adjusted even, a greater value of manufactured goods today then ever in the past. We even make more steel domestically today then in the 1960s."

Have you got a source for this info? I don't doubt the facts, but I'd like to read up on them further.



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Matt from CT

06-20-2007 10:56:03




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to Blue3992 (N Illinois), 06-20-2007 08:58:24  
Great question...

Of course, I can't find them at the moment...grrr. I'll do some more digging after work.



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Spook

06-19-2007 21:22:07




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to Matt from CT, 06-19-2007 20:07:56  
It's true that the manufacturing numbers are going up, but if you look at how manufacturing is changing, it isn't as positive. What we are seeing in the auto industry is a "howolling out" effect. We are importing components from places like Mexico and China, doing some assembly, and it counts as a US manufactured product. Basically, the more labor intensive work gets outsourced. Ford has a program to import finish machined blocks from a foundry in Brazil, assembling the components ( also largely imported ) to the block, and it is a US engine. True, but thier were probably 10X Brazilians and Mexicans involved than US citizens. We are going to see an engine plant that "build" 500,000 engines per year. With about 150 people, vs. 1500 now.

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John (C-IL)

06-19-2007 19:54:51




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
Pretty simple, it's the walmartization of society. You don't know what you had until it's gone.



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JT

06-19-2007 18:33:00




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
This the normal in small town rural america. The big stores in the bigger cities have run all the small places out, the implement companies only want big. We had an IH dealer that had been IH for over 100 years, when CNH tookover, it was either get big or get out. We have only the Amercan people to blame, they only want cheap, don"t want good quality, they want the cheapest thing they can get and do not care about the service until they need it. I see it all the time, I run a small business in a city of 100,000 plus. People want the cheapest they can buy, then when it will not work any more, the $hit hits the fan. Why do you think Lowe"s, Home Depot, Kmart, Walmart, Sears, and such stay in business and make such big bucks?????

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Ron in OH

06-19-2007 19:54:04




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to JT, 06-19-2007 18:33:00  
You are right JT. People today just go along with the flow and seem to accept whatever someone wants them to accept. They are too "price minded" and not concerned about the effects. Business is run on profits. Profits hire people not promisses. I like to buy quality and service. I DO NOT BUY AT WALMART and I'm tried of all the China junk and support for that country. If people wish to do something about this problem all they need to do is shift their buying habits. The "Box Stores" are not the types of businesses who built america.
I can relate to the small town problems out in the plains. But near the big cities it's another problem. People are moving out near the small towns to get a better life - but it's creating urban sprawl which is another problem.

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redbone

06-19-2007 18:36:19




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to JT, 06-19-2007 18:33:00  
i buy cheap on some items for one reason and one reason only-money is hard to come by. plus i believe buying cheaper products lowers prices more than anything else.



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georgeky

06-19-2007 19:54:17




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to redbone, 06-19-2007 18:36:19  
It cost very little more to go first class. In the long run the good quality stuff is the cheap stuff. By the time you count gas to haul defective junk back where it came from the good stuff cost the same or less. You alway's get what you pay for. I believe that buying the cheaper stuff puts Americans out of work and promotes more shoddy consumer products. Socks for example. I have worn the same brand of socks for as long as I can remember with no problems, until NAFTA came along and caused the factory to go south of the border. Now the same brand of socks are stretched out and will not stay up after 2 or 3 washings. I would gladly pay twice as much for socks that would last a year, and they would be cheap. Just my opinion.

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Billy NY

06-20-2007 05:52:13




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to georgeky, 06-19-2007 19:54:17  
I hear that, one thing I hate is when you find something good, and it's something you need, is a necessity or just use often, something like this happens. Try the Goldtoe brand socks from Macy's, I've have not bought any since '03, heavy cotton 100%, I forget the style, but I still can't believe they have lasted 4 years of everyday use, one of those things they made so good, you don't have to keep buying more, usually it's the other way around, not so good quality, keeps you buying more.

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TominKy

06-20-2007 03:32:38




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to georgeky, 06-19-2007 19:54:17  
Well, I wear support hose, and used to buy them from JC Penney, until they no longer sold them. In comes walmart, cheaper, better, and last longer.
I have several pair that I have worn for at least a couple of years now and they're still like new.
WalMart sells cheap stuff, but it's not all bad.



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redbone

06-19-2007 18:28:22




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
i dont know that sounds nice

here manufacturing moved in. in the last 10 years 85-90% of farmland graded under, over half our forests clear cut(they dont even leave a blade of grass), subdivisions move in, 4 homes per acre. traffic is now a problem, as well as smog(air stagnation advisory today and yesterday), gangs in our schools. ahh, this is the good life.



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2x4

06-19-2007 18:05:35




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 Re: WHATS going on in rural USA in reply to marlowe, 06-19-2007 17:49:28  
Thats been going on since the 1970's when Nat'l Geographic did an article on it.



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