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Round the Farm Kitchen Table

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KenF

02-23-2004 11:54:18




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I just logged on to this forum last week by accident and couldn't resist reading the "what do they teach in schools" thread.

I'm a city slicker but this is farming country and these discussions remind me of sitting around the kitchen table at a friend's farm years ago. I find it informative, thought provoking and exhilarating to know that there are still so many people that care enough about topics that affect us all so greatly.

For years I have been asking, "what happened to all those 'angry young men'?" Well, I think I have finally found them!

I'm from Canada and originally from UK so please don't take offense at my comments just because I'm an "outsider". I post because (as Dale Carnegie proposes) I feel I have "some unique experience or knowledge" that might be useful to others. Just like the farm kitchen discussions.

22 years ago we were having a hard time with a new company that we had just started. It was 1982 and didn't look like it was getting better anytime soon. People would ask "how are you? how's it going?" (knowing that we were struggling). Pretty quickly I learned to just say, "GRREEAAT!!". This surprises people, disarmes them and makes them smile. Best of all IT MAKES ME SMILE! and when I think about it I DO FEAL GREAT!! Thank you for asking.

Just in the last couple of years I, in turn, am surprised by how many people (strangers) when I ask them how they are....just say, "GRREEAAT!!" and smile!

So here's hoping we can start something else (even if it takes 20 years!!)

I watch US news quite a bit and am niggled by the constant talk of exporting jobs. I wish they would stop rabbiting on about the problem and suggest a solution or two! In the 60's when the UK was going bankrupt and part of the problem was exporting jobs to Japan they started a BUY BRITISH campaign. That's when the Britsh flag started appearing everywhere. Everyone had shopping bags that were just one big flag. It got to the point where you felt ashamed to buy anything that wasn't British.

Start a BUY AMERICAN campaign!!

The subject is bandied about politically and the lobbyists want to label products, but that's to put pressure on the retailers to stock only US products. I'm afraind that the US and Canadian people are just a little too afluent and therefore apathetic to actually do it. Shame on us all for buying those cheap Sony CD players, JVC TV's etc. Come on Lou Dobbs start a movement here.

There are areas where it will hurt Canadians but I don't think most Canadians will object as long as it's the people, not the politicians, lobbyists and large industry that's doing it. And in the end you'll end up buying our stuff anyway because our labour costs are in line with yours and both our peoples cross the border to work.

Ken Franks
Calgary, Alberta
CANADA

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333

02-24-2004 11:14:12




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
The problem is , Our society has become a throw away society, when ever something breaks we just by a new one at he cheapest price possible, the focus has shifted to making a quick buck and spending it, why do you think walmart works, people have more cash in there pocket at the end of the week, it also works for walmart, every time you go in there you always come out with more than you need or pick up something extra, Sams works the same way, they sell you wolume, not what you need, there is no cure, get with the program, if you can't beat them join them, I don't have a million dollars to pay for some union guy while he takes a 2 hour lunch break, I've been there and seen it all,

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Dan

02-24-2004 07:19:52




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
What does it matter if the cheap American made crap I buy is the same cheap foriegn crap. At one point in time, American made products did mean a superior product - now, it just means a union worker being paid $40 and hour is assembling the same cheap materials that a foriegn person gets paid $.50 an hour to do. I am not American bashing, or Union bashing - I am just calling it as I see it. Why, oh why, would anyone rather pay $50 more for the EXACT same product JUST because it was made in America? That is not patriotic - it is questionable financial management. I would, however, pay $50 more for a part if it was far superior than a like product - and that is my point.

Respectfully,
Dan

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Greywolf

02-24-2004 07:44:13




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to Dan, 02-24-2004 07:19:52  
Dan, you and Mark have hit the nail squarely on the head.

You never hear anything about inflation anymore, why????? ??? It's prevelant in everything we consume. Every year employee's need a raise, better benefits, etc, etc. Why do prices keep going up and up on our consumables??? Sure the big boys at the top get more % wise than the guy down the ladder. But that's America. If the lower guy goes up....he expects more and eventually forgets the bottom. Human nature...GREED!!!!! !!!!! ! There comes a point when it can't continue....and that point has been reached. In order for company X to continue in business inputs have to be stopped or cut or there is no Company X anymore.

As far as unions, the concept was and is great. Problem is too much power in too few hands. I've always said when the day comes for me to pay someone to have a job, is the day they can put me 6' under. When a worker doesn't keep up his end of "plank", he should go bye bye. Too many know that it takes an act of congress almost to get rid of the guy. By the time the strike is over with the little bit they get better. It takes how long???? to make up for the $$ lost while on strike. Simple economics says someone isn't thinking.

Grabbing Marks spare fire suit.

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Mark

02-24-2004 09:15:35




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 Re: Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to Greywolf, 02-24-2004 07:44:13  
Thank you sir.



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Fred Milner

02-24-2004 04:47:31




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
I would like to know one thing. The higher ups in the companies that are sending the jobs to other counries must not be thinking. When they get the operation going elsewhere they are not needed. Is that not true? There was an article in the paper a few weeks ago talking about the white collar jobs being lost in great numbers now. If you have no one to supervise you need no managers. Some people can't see very far into the future. I have been saying we need to buy american made products for a long time and people look at me like I am crazy. Where are the products made that are at Harber Freight? I hear a lot about buying from them. We send aid from tax dollars to most of the world and now our jobs, what next? I suppose that was more that one thing.

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Mark

02-24-2004 06:33:19




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to Fred Milner, 02-24-2004 04:47:31  
Most of what I buy at harbor freight is for seldom usage and doesn't warrant industrial quality. MOST AMERICAN MADE PRODUCTS ARE INDUSTRIAL QUALITY OR BETTER.

If I didn't buy the inferior product at a reduced price (that I could afford) I wouldn't be making a purchase at all.

Besides folks, (I'm as redneck as anyone here) there are a lot of jobs here that support overseas manufacturer's and what the media don't usually tell you is that a lot of jobs are attrition...either the person quits or retires and they don't bother replacing them.

One more thing..... read where GM has more retired workers than employees. Do you have any idea as to what kind of financial burden it is for a company to provide all the benefits WE REQUIRE????

At least we have our old Iron and don't have to buy the pumpkin brand unless we want to.

(Ducking the flak that I know will come)

Mark

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tlak

02-24-2004 02:14:38




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Walmart tried this buy american, support america a few years ago. Whoops, they didnt have any american products.



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Mark

02-24-2004 06:35:34




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to tlak, 02-24-2004 02:14:38  
Yes they did.....my flannel shirts were made in Arkansas.

Mark



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Bart

02-24-2004 01:31:06




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
100 million people in this country don't vote, or get involved. Duh Wonder if it matters.



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Ken Franks

02-23-2004 21:57:05




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
You're right to point that out and I'm not going to buy an Electrolux because of it. But that's barse-ackwards! Lou Dobbs et al have massive resources, instead of just telling us all the companies that are exporting jobs - tell us the companies that aren't.

They are just perpetuating the problem by making these companies feel like they are "just one of the crowd". You can just hear the next board meeting, "Gosh, if they're all doing it maybe we should be looking at it?"

Yes, I think they may actually be motivating the export of jobs rather than preventing it. If they searched out companies who manufactured in the USA, then maybe we could start a movement to buy from those companies. Or at least give them preference.

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Wayne

02-23-2004 20:40:14




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
To sum it all up into it's simplest form, if we keep exporting jobs and laying off Americans then it isn't gonna be long before it makes no difference how cheap the products that are being imported are since no one is gonna have a job and therefore no money to buy anything.....



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Irv From Michigan

02-23-2004 19:19:07




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
I agree with your thoughts. However, our problem is not one of Chinese conpanies marketing their goods here, it is of our own companies having products made overseas. What this amounts to are products often designed here, but produced in asia. The marketing is American, the look is American, the name is American. The products however are entirely foriegn. A recent Wall Street Journal article reported that the wages of factory workers in China to be 80 to 120 dollars per month. For 10 hours a day, 6 - 7 days a week. This works out to less than .50 cents per hour. This puts the average American worker at a 10 to 30 dollar an hour disadvantage. The Chinese worker is not working with old technology either. Our companies are building state of the art plants in china. Often the American workers have older equipment than thier corporate chinese competitors. How do you win when your own company sells you out? My 2c Irv

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KenF

02-23-2004 18:27:24




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Okay, but is there NOTHING we can do?

If I had a son right now I would tell him to become a plumber! Why? 'Cause you can't get someone from India to come fix your toilet!!

My family thinks I'm nuts 'cause I won't shop at Wal-Mart or Home Depot (Okay, since I retired I have shopped at Wal-Mart) but have you noticed what else happened over the last 20 years? We used to take printed output off the computer and send it to the "bursting & decollating room". There, the carbon was removed along with the side strips and the paper was "burst" into single pages. Companies have got smart! They have "distributed" that "processing"!!! So now you get all this crap in the mail, with instructions so small these old eyes can't read them! and so complicated this tired old brain can't interpret them (somebody shut that violin up, will you!). But you get my meaning? What happened to the service?????

What happened to quality control? It got "distributed"! Fire the lot of them! Lower the price and let the customer return what doesn't work.

Trouble is, once you don't have service for the product you buy, you might as well buy that crap from China!!! If we insisted on quality and we inisted on service wouldn't the job have to be done locally? In this country?

Supper is on the table - everything has to stop for food!!

Ken Franks
Calgary, Alberta
CANADA

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Rusty Jones/ The Mower Ma

02-24-2004 06:25:56




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 18:27:24  
Aww, c'mon, Ken: surely yer brain hasn't atrophied to the point of no return! Geez! How old are you? I found the computer keeps my brain active! And, anybody who at the age of 74 decides to start a mower repair business can't be too befuddled. And it keeps me in spending money, while my wife burns up the family finances with her cigs! Another thing! Studebaker Motor Car Co. started building their cars in Ontario, Canada back in 1965-66, at the height of the "Built in America" craze! Well, when the Big 3 got hold of that, it didn't take long for them to put Stude out of business, by labeling it a "foreign" car! Of course, they didn't tell us in the USA that lots of their car parts were made in Canada! I showed one hard-case "Buy in USA" guy, who insisted his 1972 Ford truck was All USA, the stickers on a lot of parts in his truck, including the door post sticker saying it was assembled in Canada! HMMMM! But we like ya anyway! Rusty Jones

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Les...Hey Ken F.

02-23-2004 18:18:12




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Maybe you can answer the "What's a Norton" question I posed over on the KL board yesterday. Click the link and read all about it. Since you came from across the pond, maybe you know more about it than the rest who weighed in.



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KenF

02-23-2004 19:05:55




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to Les...Hey Ken F., 02-23-2004 18:18:12  
Norton Radstock is a town somewhere around Bath/Bristol (were they ses "AHH" a lot!!). Lots of towns like Bishop's Norton. Was one of the Grateful Dead from there?

'Scuse me I think I'm in the wrong opera!!



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KenF

02-23-2004 18:30:46




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to Les...Hey Ken F., 02-23-2004 18:18:12  
Do you mean like a Norton Dominator or a Norton Grinding Machine? Sorry, I'll read your link later.



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Paul Janke

02-23-2004 18:04:14




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
This hints a little of the post I submitted last week which was (rightfully) deleted a little later. The reason we have ANY jobs here seems to be because of high quality and/or productivity. Amazing, but we successfully, but with dificulty, compete with wages of dollars per day or week rather than our per hour. I think that speaks highly of our abilities. Thanks, everyone!!



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RayP(MI)

02-23-2004 16:51:24




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Electrolux has informed their 2700 employees in their Greenville Michigan, that their factory is going to be closed, and moved to Mexico, within a couple years. In spite of a HUGE concession package by workers, and government - which for all practical purposes meant building a new factory for them. Now Federal Mogul, also in Greenville, is demanding a $3.50 per hour concession from their employees, or they're going to move. Last person out of Montcalm county - turn off the lights, and lock the doors. What you going to do when they don't make it in the USA any more? Recently replaced my dishwasher - new one said "assembled in USA." Where'd they get the parts to assemble?

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greenbeanman

02-24-2004 05:47:05




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 Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to RayP(MI), 02-23-2004 16:51:24  
Geez, before you know it all of the illegals might have to go back home to get a job.



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Mark

02-24-2004 06:52:33




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 Re: Re: Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to greenbeanman, 02-24-2004 05:47:05  
Blew me out of my chair....had to laugh.

Seriously, around these parts on a 105 degree day when we are driving down the street in our 1998 Dodge p/u with the air conditioner blowing full blast...nice and cozy, Jose is in the median laying bricks..... ..no gringo's or others anywhere to be seen.

I don't care what you say, I admire them for that....course my mama showed me some of them digging out the ditch in front of our meager home when I was a kid and she said "son, if you don't get an education, you'll be out there doing that".

And FYI, my Dodge is over 5 years old now and has never been back to the dealer or in the repair shop.....except to get the gimme cap they promised me when I bought it..... and the door lable says
Made in Mexico..... ..from Canadian parts...well the Canadian part is not written there (it's on the parts)but there are a lot of Canadian parts...and that's ok....Seems the Japanese, among others, have learned the lesson about jobs and having customers with money to spend (cause of a job) selling automotive/truck products.....or did they do it to reduce import tariffs to remain competetive??? Confused..... . So I can buy an "American" Dodge made in Mexico City or a "Japanese" Toyota Tundra, made in San Antonio, TX....new truck plant being built....boy I am really confused now.

Mark

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Ray M41

02-23-2004 16:22:37




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Went to a country music festival last Friday. Bought a harmonica. Horner ECHO. Had one about thirty years ago and am pretty sure it was made in Germany. This one was made in China.



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Vern-MI

02-23-2004 16:00:17




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Oh no, I'm in trouble now! We just purchased a Mercury Monterey Minivan made in Oakville, Ontario. Did you mean the North American Continent? If so I'm safe. However I don't know where to look to find the North American content percentage.



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Davis In SC

02-23-2004 15:21:04




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Back in the 1980's there was a campaign to "Buy American". It was spearheaded by some of the large textile firms. The Motto was "Crafted with Pride in USA". That was on the labels of many products. Perhaps it was only a coincidence, but that logo begin to disappear around the time NAFTA was signed.



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Al m

02-23-2004 14:49:45




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Ken,I two am Canadian,but in a global economy we all share simular problems.In a simplistic view I believe that there are two steps each of us can take.One is to recognize true value,that is not the lowest price but the best bang for your buck,that slightly more expensive item that is of a quality that will serve you longer/better giving better value.The secound thing we must do is in our workplaces.We must regain the lead in quality so that consumers recognize the domestic product as better value and will pay for it.We can do it.
in ont.
Al

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Mark in MO

02-23-2004 13:32:35




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
Ken, I agree 100%. But here in the states, people seem satisfied in buying junk as long as it's cheap, just look at how packed the Wal-Mart stores always are!! As a whole, we will not spend more for US built. What a Shame.
Just my O
Mark Hill
Dearborn,MO



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Agree, but

02-23-2004 13:28:55




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 Re: Round the Farm Kitchen Table in reply to KenF, 02-23-2004 11:54:18  
I agree 100 percent, but- 650 dollars to rebuild a Ford power steering pump. 400 dollars plus shipping for 16 lbs of cast iron (exhaust manifold for Case 300). I just can't afford such things. I guess its OK to buy JDs that are made in Japan.
Makes the "grey market" Japaneze tractors look inviting. Don't mind me too much..Just wish I could afford a new toy. Kenny in Colorado



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