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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Can we settle this diesel mileage issue

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Red Tom

01-12-2004 15:50:39




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I was here before with a similar question. I realize this is not a tractor question but there is a lot of knowledge here. I have 96 Chevy with 6.5l turbo diesel and am going to update. What is the truth with mileage. I have friends, coworkers, and relatives with all three brands. I've had claims from 10-24 mpg. I know there are a lot of varaibles involved, but I get 13 avg city and empty hwy, and a solid 10 mpg with tractor or camper trailer. My power is pathetic so I would be money ahead with a gasser. I would like to know the truth, I can't see how equally eqipped trucks can get 10mpg different. Please, lets be nice also.

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Ray,IN

01-13-2004 18:58:49




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
How long since you had your engine tuned up, injectors cleaned and calibrated, injector pump pressure set, cleaned all fuel filters,and so on? There are many satisfied 6.5 owners out there, perhaps a diesel tuneup will make you one of them.



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Brokenwrench

01-13-2004 15:48:50




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
You are not going to get an adequate comparison unless you drive each of the trucks you are interested in for at least 1000 miles. Everybody drives a little differently,lives on different terrain and uses their truck for different purposes.You could take a brand new X model truck and drive it over a 1000 mile trip and get 15 mpg. I could take the same truck and duplicate your trip exactly and get 20. Taking this into account most of the mileage claims made below are probably accurate. Some of the drivers are in southern states,some in mountainous regions, some are using straight #2 fuel ,while others are using blended fuel,whether they realize it or not.Highway mileage on the plains of Kansas is going to be different than highway mileage in Western Pennsylvania in the mountains. Highway mileage in North Dakota is going to be different than highway mileage in Texas due to the difference in temperature,not to mention the difference in fuel blend. The only way to get a good handle on fuel economy is to talk to people that live in your area and drive a truck similar to what you want, since they drive the same terrain,use the same fuel and experience the same driving conditions. This way you are comparing apples to apples.

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Dave Grubb

01-14-2004 05:51:48




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Brokenwrench, 01-13-2004 15:48:50  
There is a whole lot of wisdom in those statements. The effect of gearing and such is obvious---but the effect of many other things is not so apparent.

Since I record every tank--complete with notes about the driving conditions--I am amazed by the effect of such things as head winds, outside temperature, driving speed, length of trip and type of fuel.

When it is really cold it can take 30-45 minutes of driving until it is warmed up--and for that time my indicated mileage will drop, and then begin to recover.

While I get slightly better overall performance on Flying J most major brands are pretty much the same---as long as they are fresh.

The worst part is running north in the winter. I fuel in Ga and then again in southern VA---and it is all down hill for mileage (and up hill for cost) after that :(

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Roy B

01-13-2004 08:17:12




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Tom
I run a 2k F350, extended cab, 4x4, powerstroke, 6 speed. Round trip to work is 106 km or about 62 miles. Rural roads, highway and city involved and I get a consistant 19 mpg. The cold weather will drop this to 16 or so . 13 mpg towing the 32' fifthwheel and 15 with the horse trailer. Lots of power and a pleasure to drive and tow with. I own a '78 F-350 with a 14' flat deck and a 400cid 4-speed. Great old truck that struggles to get 10mpg empty and 8 with 3.5t of wood on it. It dosn't have the power or drivability of the 7.3. For towing purposes compare torque numbers rather than rated horse power. While the HP numbers are very impressive for the new 5.4 triton and 5.7 hemi they are still behind the diesels in torque numbers. Their mileage unloaded will be as good or better than the diesel, but less, when loaded or towing. The big gassers are a joy to drive and tow with. Torque numbers are comparable to the diesels but with a bit over 1/2 the mileage numbers. Sorry about the long post. I think a test drive in any of the new diesels would impress you. I have had very good luck with my 5 Ford diesels amd I really like the Cummins. I havn't tried one of the Duramax, I can only hope it is much better than GM's last three attempts at diesel pickups. Good luck with your new truck. Roy

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Mike M

01-13-2004 07:46:59




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Here's a brain teaser for you. Someone buys a brand X diesel crewcab dually the works for say $40,000 ? Gets from 10 to 20 mpg depending on load and speed. If it lasts for 200,000 miles its a miricale. Why not buy a semi tractor for say $105,000 {don't
know what they are now but 5 yrs ago you could} I't will haul 80,000 lbs all day long and some of them will go a million miles before an overhaul and still get 10 to 15 MPG or maybe more now. Just food for thought another option. By comparison puck-ups are getting terrible mileage.

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DuaneWKKC

01-13-2004 04:36:54




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Seams to me on my truck one of the variables that really affects milage is the length of the run. Truck seems to use more fuel warming up than running when at temp. Around home most trips are between 5 and 25 miles, a tank spread out over that will get me about 17 - 18 mpg (checked not off a on-board computer). With identical type roads and traffic conditions but longer runs it goes up to 18-19. If I can run on the interstate or with out much speed up and slow down at 65 - 69 mph I will consistanly get 20+ mpg. Running BP Supreme fuel that number will be 21 - 22 mpg. For me the better fuel seems to help the most on long runs.

The way you drive will have a big affect on your milage, every now and then I'll run the pixx out of it for a tank, on that tank I'll only get 15 -16 mpg. Still not bad for a 7,600lb vehicle.

Remember, a diesel will run you several thousand more on purchase but will bring several thousand more on trade than a gas motor. Thats why you can buy used 3/4 and 1 tones with gas motors all day for WAY less than a comparable diesel.

DuaneW.

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Bill R

01-12-2004 20:58:52




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
1995 F-250 Powerstroke turbo diesel auto. I get about 18-19 running around here empty on the two lanes. Just got done with a 1400 mile trip hauling back a 620 wide, G wide, massey 30 narrow + trailer weighs 10,000 got right around little less than ten when I was in about -15 temps, farther south 5-10 degrees above zero little better than 10MPG. And all the power I want, cruise in overdrive--trip was all interstate or four lane. I will say it was a load though :) Good luck finding the right truck

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Ken C.

01-12-2004 19:54:04




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
I have a 03 Dodge 2500 with HO cummins and auto trans. Empty will get 21mpg, pulling two tractors on flatbed will get 9.8 to 10.8, but it will pull them as fast as you want to go, plenty of power and not very loud for a diesel, like it so far.Ken.



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Brian in MO

01-12-2004 19:08:23




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
OK here is my 2 cents. My company truck is a 2002 Dodge 4x4, 1 ton, dually flat bed, with a cummins and a 5 speed. The company has 4 of these at best they get about 15 mpg empty (which weighs about 9,000 lbs) loaded they get anywhere from 8-10 (pulling a tandem dual wheel gooseneck with a John Deere 310SG backhoe which grosses around 36,000lbs truck and all). They also have a Chevy Duramax which has automatic that gets better milage and pulls the load just as well if not better but the transmission went out last thurs. at 30,000 miles. That is not a cut down just a fact. Brian

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Jerry/MT

01-12-2004 18:19:47




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Fuel mileage variation comes from several source:
a) transmission and rear axle ratios
b) engine condition
c) fuel heating value (a few percent variation)
d) weather conditions (cold temperature start and idle, winds,etc)
e) tires
f) vehicle weight
g)the ability to fill the tank up to the same point each time.
h) the way each individual drives
i) the ammount of time in heavy traffic versus highway cruising
j) the terrain
There are probably a few more that I haven't thought of. So if you want to compare few milage between vehicles you gotta' control all these variables to get a true comparison. My friend and I have identically configured '99 F-350's Turbodiesels, same axle ratio, same transmissions. I get 20 mpg on a 500 mile drive at 2000rpm, he gets 16 mph with his foot in it. That's a 25 % difference. Hope this helps.

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john

01-13-2004 07:20:03




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-12-2004 18:19:47  
Forgot the #1 variation factor for fuel milage.
Wind resistance of the vechical.
And incresed wind resistance on the same vechical at incresed speeds.



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max

01-12-2004 18:41:39




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-12-2004 18:19:47  
Jerry
You are exactly right about all the variables, gas burner, diesel, or propane, but after you have the vehicle a few years, you can establish a pattern to suit yourself. But check your figures, and I think you'll find that you are doing only 8% better than your leadfooted friend.
Respectfully
max



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Lew

01-12-2004 20:33:17




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 Re: Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issu in reply to max, 01-12-2004 18:41:39  
Max, About the numbers. 500 miles/20mpg = 25 gallons 500 miles/16mpg = 31.25 gallons
(31.25 - 25)/25 = .25 or 25% meaning that the lower mpg used 25% more fuel than the higher mpg. Or looking another way (31.25 - 25)/31.25 = .2 or 20% meaning that the higher mpg used 20% less fuel than the lower mpg. How did you arrive at 8%?



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max

01-13-2004 05:53:01




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage in reply to Lew, 01-12-2004 20:33:17  
Lew
By beer and trying to calculate.
My mistake.
max



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Mike D.

01-12-2004 17:32:12




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
We run a crewcab 4X4 7.3 PSD with the 6 spd manual. Get 17.8 mpg at interstate speed with the cruise control. This truck has single rear wheels, and the 3.73 rearend. No chips, nor upgrade exhaust.



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max

01-12-2004 17:04:27




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Red
I have a 92 Dodge 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive cummins 187,000 miles on it.
Empty weight 6700 lbs.
Empty mileage at 60-65 mph gets 16 mpg.
Towing 3 to 4 tons gets 10 to 12 at 60 mph.
Driving real slow on gravel roads empty gets 18 to 20 mpg.
Don't think a newer 4 valves per cyl. will do much better, but I never drove one because I can't afford one, wouldn't buy one if I could.
max

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49 Cubber!

01-12-2004 16:38:48




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
On long trips,empty,I get about 17.Wife and kids about 15,tractors wife and kids about 12.01 F-350 Powerstroke



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Mark

01-12-2004 16:25:35




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Tom,

I have 44 K on my 02 duramax/Allison combo.
I have been on over 23K of haul trips that have grossed from 28k to 16K. My around town mileage is consistant around 16 mpg. My tow mileage is around 10 mpg with towing heavys like tractors and such. When I tow my 8K 5ver I get 12 to 13 mpg.
On the highway with no tow I get 19 to 20 mpg and have never really done better than that.

Hope this helps,

feel free to email if you have questions.
I did not get as good mileage before I juiced my truck with the edge juice chip.
Power plus even at 28K gross.

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jim

01-12-2004 16:23:00




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
I have a 2000 7.3 Powerstroke. I get 17 on highway, empty. Pulling a race car trailer at about 7500#, I get about 13-14, depending on wind, but I also went from 302ci ford 4wd at 8-9mpg. So I am happy with the fuel mileage.



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Dave Grubb

01-12-2004 16:12:52




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
The simple answer is that they don't get 10 mpg difference. While there maybe one here or there that gets more or less than the norm the biggest difference is in the guy that is telling you what he gets. Some will tell you what they think they get, some what they wish they got, and once and awhile one actually knows and will tell you the truth.

I cannot tell you the specifics on your truck--but a rule of thumb is that in equal trucks doing equal service with equal power outputs the diesel will get about 25% higher mileage than will a gas engine.

I currently have a Ford 7.3 liter and have recorded every drop of fuel that I have put into it---with notes as to details about the conditions of each tank (yep---I'm anal).

I have not updated my data base since 100,000 miles--but at that point I had averaged 15.9 mpg overall.

I have gotten as high as 24.2 mpg with straight #2 running at 62 mph on the flat without wind.
I have gotten as low as 11.3 at a gross wt of 17K in the hills.

For the 100k I have run about 30% of that pulling trailers of various weights.

Winter fuel cuts me down about 10% and I have a cap that is on about 50% of the time which extends 6" above the roof of the truck---that reduces mileage 1-1.5 mpg.

Hope this helps even though it does not address your engine.

One last thought---I have 108,000 miles on mine now and will run it for at least another 150,000---and that is a big value to me---not to mention it pulls anything I ask it to :D

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Dave Grubb

01-12-2004 18:30:43




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Dave Grubb, 01-12-2004 16:12:52  
Well---I guess I should have looked before I spoke---CRS is setting in!!

My average overall is 15.6 not 15.9, fuel cost/mile is $0.091.

My worst tank was actually 9.4 mpg which was bad fuel (Sinclair/Cenex) from Calgary AB to Shelby Montana, 63 mph, 16,800 GCW. 11.5 to 13.5 is about the norm for that wieght.

My best of 24.6 was Flying J from north east PA to Rochester NY and back down into central PA. Empty, no cap and mostly 55 mph (no interstate).

I had one short run(Toledo to Sharron) east bound on the OH Turnpike that was 24.8---with a tail wind ;)
Also Flying J.

Overall Flying J is my preferred fuel.

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RJ-Az

01-12-2004 16:09:27




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
lotsa luck on this on. There are three thing a man will lie about (1)His bank account (2) His love life and (3)His fuel mileage.Been running a 95' chevy HD3500 6.5 turbo diesel loaded out at 14850gvw and get an average of 10mpg.



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fox

01-12-2004 15:57:49




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 Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to Red Tom, 01-12-2004 15:50:39  
Many old timers have yold me that like trucks/tractors doing the same thing, Diesel will/can get 50% more economy.
If you want a dodge diesel truck for mileage, get one of the 12 valve motors. This would be a 94 to early 98 model. Then have a diesel mechanic tune it. There are people CLAIMING to get upper 20's. Like 28 mpg.
I have a 02 Cummins and it has gotten 22.4 on the highway but normal running is 17-18. I am sure it can go down to 10-12.

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Jim J

01-12-2004 20:41:41




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to fox, 01-12-2004 15:57:49  
My son has a 94 Dodge that has the bigger high pressure injectors put in, the waste gate disconnected, the timing reset & the pump turned up a little. It has 3.54 gears. On straight number 2 fuel it will get from 24 to 27 miles per gallon. The all time best on a tank of fuel is 29.5 miles per gallon.



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Bob

01-12-2004 16:41:36




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to fox, 01-12-2004 15:57:49  
I have a 2003 Chevy with the 8.1 gas and Allison transmission.I only have about 4000 miles and haven't towed any long distances, but empty on the expreesway on trips I got 11.8.It's a 3500 dually 4x4.



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mike

01-12-2004 16:41:16




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 Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issue in reply to fox, 01-12-2004 15:57:49  
I have a 2000 two wheel drive stick sfift.Empty with good #2 22 mpg all day I go down to 19 with winter blend. I pull one tractor and a plow to shows and stuff I set the cruize at 70 and let it go never need to kick it out for hills. This is a 250 hp 7.3 the newer ones are up to 325 stay with a deisel. hope this helps.



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Ken

01-12-2004 21:17:31




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 Re: Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage issu in reply to mike, 01-12-2004 16:41:16  
One thing I think hasn't been toughed on here is that if your figuring out which one is cheaper to run,( gas veruses diesel) you have to figure out your cost per mile. By that I mean, what is the price of gas compared to the price of diesel where you live.



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Mike M

01-13-2004 07:32:55




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mileage in reply to Ken , 01-12-2004 21:17:31  
When figuring cost per mile don't forget to cost in the extra engine oil capacity and filter costs and change intervals ? Some of the overlooked things.



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Garry

01-13-2004 12:44:19




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel mile in reply to Mike M, 01-13-2004 07:32:55  
and price of the truck. diesels cost more than the gas version. Spread that over the years to be used.



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K B in Pa

01-13-2004 16:56:09




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can we settle this diesel in reply to Garry, 01-13-2004 12:44:19  
I bought a paper back book entiteled " how to get better gas milage". I bought it back in the fuel crises back in the 1970. Can't find the darn thing now but a lot of what was in it was done as a study at some university. A few little things that I do remmber from the book were kinda interesting. Simple things like driving with the windows up compared to driving with the windows down. saved you X amount m.p.g. If you would cut off the ends of your exchust pipes at an upward angle saved fuel. There were lots and lots of little crazy things in there like that and it was all supost to have been proven stuff.

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