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opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor

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Lynn Kasdorf

01-02-2004 16:57:11

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When buying a new batt for the old John Deere B, I decided to try the 8v battery they carry at tractor supply. The brief writeup implied that you could use them on a 6v system, and get better starting performance.

Anybody have experience with these?

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Phil Munson

01-03-2004 08:43:25

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

Used 8V batteries on my JD Bs for 20 years; no problems. We used to idle the tractor down before we turned on the lights so as not to blow them. It was the right answer for M&W pistons.

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Jeff

01-03-2004 06:40:42

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

I have an 8v on my Oliver 77 and wouldn't change it for anything. It won't spin the motor like a 12v will but it rarely fails to start no matter how cold it is. This is not a everyday user either so it sits aot. WE also have some that still have 6v batteries on them that do ok but we have had better luck with the 8's than the 6's. Most that we have have been converted to 12v which if your going to use it alot works alot better, especially if your not worried about keeping the original look.

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I Like Case

01-02-2004 23:32:50

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

The 8v battery is a good addition. But you should tweak the regulator to keep it at 8 volts.

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01-02-2004 20:38:33

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

I've got 6v, 8v and 12v systems on various tractors around here and when it gets down around zero F. or lower, I've learned to start one of the 12v units first and then pull the 6 and 8v ones if I need that one....or just use a jumper cable. If you're wanting to stay away from the looks of an alternator put on a 12v generator. Another way to keep the original look is to use available 12v bulbs in the original 6v housings, like 12v backup bulbs for headlight bulbs in Case Va tractor headlight housings. Another thing that helps in starting is to keep the clutch in so you're not trying to turn the input shaft in that frozen 90wt. :-)

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john d

01-02-2004 18:51:02

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

If your tractor is in good shape, tuned well, with good (and HEAVY) cables, good connections, and has a good starter and generator, a 6-volt battery will start it.

If your tractor has been "tinkered with" by adding high compression pistons and an overbore kit, 6 volts may not do it satisfactorily.

I have a Farmall H with a 6-volt system. I have no intention of changing it. I have a Farmall M and a Super M that have been "improved" to the point that a 6-volt battery (even with the good cables, new starter, etc.) will NOT turn either over easily when it's really cold, or when trying to re-start a hot engine.

About 15 years ago, we put 8-volt batteries in both the M and SM. They spin over easier, the lights are brighter, and I've had NO problems with either of them due to this change. The generators have charged the 8 volt batteries just fine with NO changes to the regulators. The rpms simply had to be a little higher for charging to begin.

The front bearing in the M generator only lasted 54 years, and went out recently. I'm in the process of converting it to 12 volts rather than rebuilding the generator. I'll keep it, in case anyone wants to put it back someday.

In short, it's your decision. I wouldn't depend on changing batteries to cure other problems, but if other parts are in good shape and it won't spin the way you want it to, 8 volts will help.

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jimbo

01-02-2004 20:18:17

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Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to john d, 01-02-2004 18:51:02

I put an 8 volt battery in my Super Cwhich was a 6 volt system and it melted the coil after several hours of running. Maybe this was caused by something else but it did happen.The worse thing I did was that I converted it over to a 12 volt system. Tune it up good and keep it a 6 or 8 volt .If the 8 volt works for you ,use it.It hurts the look and sale of a tractor.I would not buy one converted over to 12 volt. My 350 and 400 were original 12 volts although some were made 6 volt and I don't know why.

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jdemaris

01-02-2004 18:41:59

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

All things being equal, and 8 volt battery will crank better than a 6 volt. No matter how well your six volt system is setup, your going to have a cranking voltage of around 4.5 volts. An 8 volt system will crank around 6 volts. In the long run, though, I'm not sure it's worth the bother and expense. If you kept the system at 6 volt, but installed an oversize 6 volt battery, that alone could increase your cranking voltage up to 5 or 5.5 volts - and that's close to what you'd get with the 8. When I worked as a John Deere mechanic, we used a lot of 8 volt batteries, but that was 20-30 years ago. Then, they were more common, and no more expensive than any other battery. Now, they're an oddity, and priced high. Also, years ago, most professional battery chargers had an 8 volt charge mode. I don't see new ones like that anymore. On top of all that, you've got to turn up your voltage regulator so it will charge the battery on the tractor. In my opinion, if the tractor is a toy or show machine, I'd leave it at 6 volts. If it's a machine that, on occasion, you have to get started when it's thirty below zero F., then change it over to twelve volt - or install a block heater. I've still got a couple of tractors that are six volt and are daily users (My Case VAC and Cletrac HG). At 20 to 30 below, it's a crap shoot if they'll start - and believe me, they are well maintained and set up properly. I cheat, though, and have block heaters on them. Plug them in for half an hour, and they'll start at any temp.

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RAB

01-02-2004 23:45:16

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Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to jdemaris, 01-02-2004 18:41:59

'All things being equal' - that may depend.....
Look closer at the cold cranking amps and duration. You may find that the idea of two extra volts available may have diverted your consideration of the current capacity for that battery, with one extra cell taking up space.
Not saying they are no good, just saying look carefully. Value for money and all that.
I am someone who thinks that if it was designed around a 6 volt system, then, all things being the same, it should still still be OK with that system - if restored to it's original condition.
I just don't think batteries are quite like they used to be.
Regards, RAB

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jdemaris

01-03-2004 06:13:26

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Re: Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tracto in reply to RAB, 01-02-2004 23:45:16

That's why I mentioned cranking voltage, not standing battery voltage. Cranking voltage will be determined by cranking demand versus available amperage from the battery (not counting for line-loss voltage drop). That's why, in some situations, a small 6 volt battery will only supply 4 volts at cranking whereas a large 6 volt battery might supply 5+ volts at cranking. The cranking voltage is what determines the cranking speed. It is also possible, as you alluded to, to buy an 8 volt battery to replace a 6 volt battery, and gain little to nothing as far as cranking voltage goes. That would be unusual though on a small engine tractor. As far a quality of batteries goes, I've bought bad batteries 40 years ago, and still get some bad ones today. It does seem, though, on the average, that six volts batteries greatly outlast twelve volt batteries - and I have no idea why. The 6 volt battery in my HG is seven years old, and the battery in my VAC is ten years old. With my 12 volt system equipment, it seems to be a rare occasion when a battery can make it to it's warranty target date. Especially the junk batteries I buy from NAPA (Exide I think).

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Scott KY

01-02-2004 18:37:32

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

Forget the 8 volt. I tried one on an M farmall. It would blow the 6 volt light bulbs. If you use triple 0 battery cables and have a good 6 volt battery the tractor will start fine.

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Kens640

01-03-2004 08:15:42

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Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Scott KY, 01-02-2004 18:37:32

Hi Scott , I'll bet you didn't have your voltage regulator adjusted to take 8v .I put an 8v in my Ford 640 after trying everything associated with the electrical system & love the start up results & I have much better lighting too . I wouldn't have known about the regulator tweaking either if I hadn't talked to the generator repair shop the day I had it rebuilt . He sold me a new regulator after he tweaked it for me . I'm going to put an 8v battery in my 8n Funk too after I get it completely rebuilt. Good luck all . Ken

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Kens640

01-03-2004 08:13:42

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Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Scott KY, 01-02-2004 18:37:32

Hi Scott , I'll bet you didn't have your voltage regulator adjusted to take 8v .I put an 8v in my Ford 640 after trying everything associated with the electrical system & love the start up results & I have much better lighting too . I wouldn't have known about the regulator tweaking either if I hadn't talked to the generator repair shop the day I picked it up . He sold me a new regulator after he tweaked it for me . I'm going to put an 8v battery in my 8n Funk too after I get it completely rebuilt. Good luck all . Ken

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Dennis D

06-21-2005 07:59:55

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Re: Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tracto in reply to Kens640, 01-03-2004 08:13:42

I put 8v in my 640. What tweaking to regulator is needed?

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bill

01-02-2004 18:36:44

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

Echlin ( NAPA) makes an adjustable regulator I agree bigger cables is proper However on repoweren and oversize high compressions motors as many of us do for STOCK (me included) antique pulling tractors 8 volts is real nice If you know how the sprng on most 6 volt regulators can be adjusted to give more voltage However be carefull doing ths as too much will boil a good battery and ruin it If its stock the way to go is as other pst good 6 volt equipment and BIG cables

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havvey

01-02-2004 18:31:59

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

IT WILL WORK AND HAS BEEN DONE FOR YEARS THE PLUS SIDE WAS A LITTLE MORE JUICE FOR THE STARTER AND THE BIG GAIN WAS A LOT MORE JUICE TO LIGHTS ON OLD CARS. YOUR BEST GAIN WOULD BE 12 VOLT CONVERSION.

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Ray,IN

01-02-2004 17:44:48

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

This is a poor bandaid for lack of proper maintence of the 6V system. The generator must be reset to produce adequate voltage to recharge the 8V battery, the stock setup will not. Spending the same amount of money on repairing the 6V system will produce much more satisfactory results. The most common mistake is using inadequate battery cables. The small 6ga cables used for 12V systems will not carry sufficient current for the 6V starting system; 2ga is the minimum, and "0"ga is factory size cable.

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George

01-03-2004 00:03:09

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Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Ray,IN, 01-02-2004 17:44:48

Amen. The tractor was designed to start of six volts and should do so today. Besides looking at the high current cables and clamps to be sure they are adequate, check the started selenoid/switch for excessive voltage drop. Also the starter, ignition, carburation and compression need to be up to snuff, as with any engine. An eight volt battery may only be a short term fix if everything else is not to spec. (I have turned down buying old tractors because of having "upgraded" low voltage systems!)

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raytasch

01-02-2004 17:41:20

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Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to Lynn Kasdorf, 01-02-2004 16:57:11

Never done that. My concern would be getting that 8v battery charged with a 6v generator. Generally speaking it takes 2 volts charging voltage over battery voltage to get a good charge into the battery. A 6volt generator regulator generally puts out around 7 1/2 volts. You may get it done. Let us know how it works. You can probably tell quickly how it is going to work by putting a meter across the battery with the Deere running at about 1/3 throttle and see how much the generator is putting out.
ray

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A.B. SIMMONS

01-02-2004 19:25:19

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Re: Re: opinions on 8V batteries for 6v tractor in reply to raytasch, 01-02-2004 17:41:20

Had old worn out m farmall that would start some-times? put a 8-volt battery on it no more trouble, kept it about 2 years. any bodys guess tho

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