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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Today's tip of the day?

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jdemaris

12-17-2003 06:54:37




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Wonder if anyone disagrees with this website's "Tip of the Day." It describes a specific and absolute difference, in technical definition and operation, between an ammeter and an amperage gauge. Not trying to nitpick too much, or be over erudite, but words and phrases mean something, depending on their context. Besides antique tractors, cars, engines, etc., I also collect old tech. books and manuals and have been a mechanic most of my life. I can find many references to ampere gauges, amperage gauges, ammeters, and indicators, along with diagrams, where the tech. writer or author has them performing identical functions. Descriptions vary depending on who is doing the writing, and/or the time-period it takes place. I find references to "two way ammeters", "one way ammeters", "DC ammeters", "dash ampere gauges", and more. Also frequent mentions of an "indicator", which also shows ampere flow but includes starter motor draw. Generally speaking, an ammeter, ampere (or amperage) gauge all measure amperes. An ampere, (by one turn-of-the-century description) is the current produced by an electromotive force of one volt in a circuit having a resistance of one ohm . . . I mention all this, because I belive it is misleading to put absolute definitions on devices found in old cars and tractors, when they are not set in stone. Most of the old tech. books and manuals go into great detail in their descriptions so the reader knows exactly what is being described. Much more so than what's found in modern repair manuals. Take a look at a 1916 Audels Automotive Guide, or A Pracital Treatise on Self Propelled Vehicles (including tractors) ca. 1905, or Dykes Diseases of a Gasoline Automobile 1903.

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mj

12-19-2003 17:25:14




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 Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to jdemaris, 12-17-2003 06:54:37  
So, instead of narrowing down all of the different types of amperage guages and their varied uses and assigning a name for them based on common usage it's better to just describe the intended use.....right? You are of course correct in saying that they all measure current flow just as I am correct in saying that all firearms 'shoot'. There are, of course, different types of firearms for different purposes and there are different types of amperage guages for different applications. I am responsible for that tip but did not post it as such. It was in reply to a posted question and is based upon my personal experience which has been influenced by the 'lingo' in engineering labs, tractor dealership shops, general gearhead bull sessions and a mis-spent youth. Since my earliest recollection of vehicular electrical equipment is watching and listening to my Grandad as he worked on an Allis-Chalmers WC magneto in the early 50s I cannot speak for any common usage before that. It may not be 'correct' by anothers' point of view but it is a true representation of the common usage of the terms in my time and in my part of the world. :-)

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jdemaris

12-20-2003 06:04:52




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 Re: Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to mj, 12-19-2003 17:25:14  
My post was not intended as a personal dig. I responded to the ammeter discussion after
seeing it for the second time, posted as a “tip of the day.” That’s different than
appearing as a response in a discussion forum. I believe that such comments, when
posted in that way, carry a certain air of credibility - especially to people that are new to
old tractors and all that goes with it. This website has a mixed audience that runs the
spectrum of background and experience from professional level down to none at all. Somebody with no experience, looking for knowledge, might be misled by discrete
comments such as those relating to ammeters and ampere (amperage) gauges. When I worked as a union electrician in the 1960s, virtually everyone I worked with
called their volt-ohm-ampmeter a “Wiggins.” It’s likely that few today ever heard that
name used for a test instrument. In regard to your comments about firearms and terminology, there are some terms more
universal than others. If I said a hunter was carrying a gun, you’d probably picture a guy
(or girl, perhaps) with a firearm. But . . . , if I walked up to an oil-furnace repairman, and
asked him about guns, he might be thinking about furnace nozzles? Now, if I say the
word “revolver”, it’s probably specific enough for any audience (except, perhaps a
Beatles album collector). With this antique tractor website, there are participants from various parts for the
country as well as the world. To compound the issue, some of us use old reference
materials, i.e. and e.g. original owner’s or repair manuals, and various reference books
that might date back to the late 1800s. Combining data taken from these various
geographical regions as well as different time periods can get problematic when it comes
to terminology. Back to the ammeters and amperage gauges. Type in “amperage gauge”
into an Internet search engine, and you’ll get many entries showing an “amperage gauge”
to be what was described as an “ammeter” on this tractor site. One site, at
Link
having ammeter an American term for the British “amperage gauge.” Kind of like boot,
bonnet, hood and trunk. Several military vehicle sites mention amperage gauges as
“ammeters”, such as in the following citation taken from a forum:

“I have picked up a NOS WWII amperage gauge. It is exactly like the WWII Jeep and Dodge ones I have seen, but the amperage range is only -20 to +20 amps. Can somebody tell me what this goes to? Thanks, . . . “

I’m getting too long winded for this forum entry and perhaps I’m not explaining myself
well. Again, no personal slight was intended, but I think those that post “tips” on the
homepage should be more careful. I’d post a smiley face here to show my intentions, but
I refuse to use the things.

John de Marrais

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mj

12-20-2003 09:29:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to jdemaris, 12-20-2003 06:04:52  
:-) The post to the question was picked up by the webmaster and used as a 'tip of the day'....I had nothing to do with that part of it. :-) As far as considering your post a personal dig...I didn't. :-) One more comment and then I will pack my tents and slip away into the night: Go into an auto parts store and ask for an amperage gauge or an amp meter....If the guy is over 40 or so he's gonna ask "You mean an ammeter?". :-) Or maybe not.... :-) It's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :-)

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Don't Eat The Yellow Snow

12-17-2003 10:58:59




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 Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to jdemaris, 12-17-2003 06:54:37  
That's what I was told.



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Oh Now he tells me.

12-17-2003 12:06:32




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 Re: Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to Don't Eat The Yellow Snow, 12-17-2003 10:58:59  
Where were you yesterday? I thought it was lemon flavoring.



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rustyfarmall

12-17-2003 07:50:27




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 Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to jdemaris, 12-17-2003 06:54:37  
I very seldom read the tip of the day because I find them inaccurate and sometimes misleading. After reading your post, I did read todays tip, and I agree with you, it makes no difference what you call it, it is still telling you the same thing, whether it is amperage draw of an ignition system, or the draw of a starter. It is the same thing.



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paul

12-17-2003 08:48:46




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 Re: Re: Today's tip of the day? in reply to rustyfarmall, 12-17-2003 07:50:27  
Yea, I've had a few quibbles with some of the 'tips of the day' too.

--->Paul



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