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Hydraulic press cylinder

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Roy Suomi

12-10-2003 20:52:31




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Ok you hydraulic experts...If I add another cylinder identical to original , will it press twice as much ?? some say yes , some say no... How 'bout it??




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Bob Clark

12-12-2003 20:01:04




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
Actually doubling the "Diameter" of a cylinder will increase the force by a factor of 4. That's because the the area of the piston is what's important. The area is based on the formula Radius squared (r*r) times pi (~3.14159). Remember the radius of a cylinder is 1/2 of the diameter.



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curtis

12-11-2003 21:42:13




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
Ok my turn ! if you have 4x2" or 2x4" or one 8 Inch you will still have 8' sq to do the math with , pressure will be the same , piston speed will slow down , hook them up to the same line , at the tee use a larger hose to cut down on the friction coeff: in the hyd line's,stress on the header beam , should be less because you had 2 stress point's , the press will be stronger because we spread out the load, i say go with what cost less , after all nobody said any thing about the cost ! hope i can help and every body have a great Christmas !

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George G

12-12-2003 16:16:07




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to curtis , 12-11-2003 21:42:13  
8 x 8 x .7854 = 50.2656 sq.in x 2000psi = 100531.2 lbs force

4 x 4 x .7854 = 12.5664 sq.in. x 2 cylinders =25.1328 sq.in. x 2000 psi =50265.6 lbs force

2 x 2 x .7854 = 3.1416 sq.in. x 4 cylinders = 12.5664 sq.in. x 2000 psi = 25132.8 lbs force

One 8" cylinder at 2000psi will give you 50 tons force
Two 4" cylinders at 2000psi will give you 25 tons force
four 2" cylinders at 2000psi will give you 12.5 tons force

The pressures gitten to me.

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thurlow

12-12-2003 07:02:00




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to curtis , 12-11-2003 21:42:13  
Actually, a single 8 inch cylinder will generate about twice the force of 2 four inch cylinders and 4 times the force of 4 two inch cylinders; do the math..... ..this is on the push stroke; pull stroke may vary depending on size of ram(s)....



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Wayne

12-11-2003 19:32:35




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
Hey guys, I saw all the discussion about using twin rams. I know OTC routinely used twin rams in their line of cylinders, and if I'm not mistaking one of the applications they used to use them in was their pin press, until they quit making them that is. I believe they used either a 50 or 75 ton twin ram for power. I have a 30 ton Twin Ram on my truck now that has a single oil connection with the bases connected together and a crossbar on the rods with a hole in it. It's designed to do basically the same thing Enerpacs Hollo-Rams do to be able to push or pull depending on how you set it up..... As long as you both cylinders are connected together(IE one oil supply from the pump) they will always act with equal force, just like a set of lift cylinders on a loader do. Roy, good luck on your press. We made us a "portable" one several years ago with 75 ton single ram to break tracks with and it has been a lifesaver.

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Roy Suomi

12-11-2003 17:16:30




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
Guys , Thanks for feed back to my question.. Most gave me the answer i needed.. I'm building my own track press for dozer tracks.. I've already engineered this on CAD.. My only concern was I can buy smaller cylinders a lot cheaper than to buy an 8 " cylinder.. Thousands different..



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JMS/MN

12-11-2003 13:30:42




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
Picture this: Ma, the hydraulic pump, made breakfast this morning, which was one bowl of Wheaties. But both sons (Joe Cylinder and John Cylinder) showed up for breakfast, instead of just one. They are twins, with equal size forearms. Each son ate half a bowl of wheaties, and that was their power (pressure) for the day. Since their input was limited to half a load, they could each work only half as fast as normal. They pushed the same amount as usual, but lasted only half as normal, since their fuel tank ran empty.

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rhudson

12-11-2003 10:28:15




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
as others have said: if they are plumbed in parr. the force will be doubled and speed of extension will be cut in half. (assuming that the relief valve was not bypassing before you added the second cylinder).

usually cylinders are connected in series when you need both cylinders to expend at the same rates with unequal loads. (there are several ways to ensure this with different series setups)

as a note, in the parr. setup, just because the two cylinders are the same size does not mean that the cylinders will expend at the same time or rate. even a few pounds more force or friction on one cylinder will ensure that its twin will extend first. you will need mechanical structure to synconize the two cylinders.

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ED 520

12-11-2003 07:14:21




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
JSM/MN is right, force is a function of pressure and volume (cyl area x pressure= force) speed is a function of (cyl area x gpm x .2597). You will double your force but unless you increase your pump gpm delevery your travel speed will be half of what it was ED



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Guru

12-11-2003 02:23:40




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
yep, as long as the cylinders are side by side and not connected together at the rods.



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Dean Barker

12-10-2003 21:41:52




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 Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Roy Suomi, 12-10-2003 20:52:31  
It will double if you plumb them up in parallel.



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snitkawl

12-11-2003 03:59:52




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Dean Barker, 12-10-2003 21:41:52  
I don`t understand. How does the plumbing method change the pressure from the pump? There is only one pressure port on the pump. It seems to me that as long as the pump is hooked directly to each cylinder, there will be the same pressure inside each cylinder. Whether it is hooked parallel or series makes no difference as far as pressure is concerned.
The problem I see with two cylinders is synchronising the rams. How do you position the work piece so that both rams are able to apply pressure equally?
Wouldn`t a bigger cylinder solve the problem with less complications?

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pasbon

12-11-2003 05:05:22




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 Re: Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to snitkawl, 12-11-2003 03:59:52  
if I understand it correctly,of which i have a 50-50 chance, it is based on psi. and if you have one cylinder with 2000 psi from tractor and it has a 4 inch plate in the ram to push against,by putting 2 rams you now have 8" surface with still 2000 psi coming from pump... I'll let someone else do the math...lol...:>) I may be way off here if so just disregard. this is my thoughts only... pasbon.

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Ty

12-11-2003 18:55:00




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to pasbon, 12-11-2003 05:05:22  
Two 4" cylinders will not have as much force as a 8" cylinder. You figure the area of the piston (3.14 X radius squared) and multiply that times the PSI. At 2,000 PSI a 4" cyl will have roughly 25,000 pounds of force and a 8" cyl will have 100,000 pounds of force.



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paul

12-11-2003 09:37:53




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to pasbon, 12-11-2003 05:05:22  
Yup. That is a parallel hookup. You are taking the pump output which is constant, and trading speed for um, force guess? Pressure stays the smae, but is applied to more surface area.

About the same as installing a bigger cylinder - more surface area for the 2000psi fluid to push against.

In a series hookup, the 2 cylinders will offer the same total pressure, but extend 2wce as far....

No one has said yet, most press frames are built for a certain rating, doubling the pressure may likely result in a wrecked press. :)

--->Paul

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JMS/MN

12-11-2003 00:26:48




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 Re: Re: Hydraulic press cylinder in reply to Dean Barker, 12-10-2003 21:41:52  
I think you are right- if you plumb them parallel. If they are plumbed in series they do not increase the pressure. If you plumb them parallel, you maintain the pressure but cut the speed to one-half, because the volume has to go to two cylinders instead of only one.



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