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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblower traction problems

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Bill

12-10-2003 17:21:01




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Hi! 1st lawn tractor owned, mows great,but have a snow traction problem. If this board isn't the appropriate venue, please direct me to wherever. Ok...My Toro XL 16/38 tractor runs a 40" Berco two stage snow blower. My rear tires are tubed and filled with windshield washer fluid, plus I have the wheel weights. The tires I thought had the proper inflation for tires filled with fluid. My driveway has a very slight slope of about 2-3 degrees. When I went DOWN the driveway in 2nd gear I discovered that the speed was too slow..or it seemed I did not have the speed needed and I had rear wheel spin....going downhill!!! 3rd gear was much better but I still has some wheel spin and had almost no steering. I got to the end of the driveway...and was not impressed. I turned around in the street and quickly found out I could not make it up the driveway in 1,2, or 3rd gear. I could go maybe 3 feet and then wheels spinning!!! Only if I started from the other side of the street in 4th gear...could I make it up the driveway..... .. My front tire had 26 psi, my rears had 24 psi!!!!! What the heck...I thought the dealer had set up the machine properly...The Berco calls for 7-8 psi rear tires (although it doesn't mention fluid filled tires) and 14-16 psi in the fronts. I lowered the pressures, I wait for the next snow!!!! Is this going work SUBSTANTIALLY better???? I thought of adding more weight in the rear, the dealer said no, that the fluid in the tires and the wheel weights were enough and that more would offset the balance front and rear...the Berco manual says that the extra weight must be 100 lbs minimum (which suggests X amount more is ok!) I don't know what the fluid in the tires adds in weight, but even with the wheel weights, I dont think its 100 lbs! Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!! thanks in advance, Bill

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Don LC

12-10-2003 21:57:04




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 Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblower traction prob in reply to Bill, 12-10-2003 17:21:01  
Air your tires acording to your ouners manual..... On my cub Cadet I added chains and a steel rack out the back that held 3 concrete blicks ,filled with concrete .....use 8" pieces of conduit and threadall throught the block, with a piece of chanel iron--top and bottom.....don't know what it weighed but it worked for me..... .



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RWK in WI

12-10-2003 17:37:00




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 Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblower traction prob in reply to Bill, 12-10-2003 17:21:01  
Yes, you need more weight on the back. The snowblower hangs off the front and you need to counter ballance off the back. 100# on the rear plate below the seat or above the hitch will work.
You can get by with puting a 5 gallon pail or two on the back filled with sand or rocks.
YOU ALSO NEED TIRE CHAINS ON THE REAR TIRES. I hope this helps you.



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RayP(MI)

12-10-2003 18:21:09




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 Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblower traction in reply to RWK in WI, 12-10-2003 17:37:00  
RWK has it right. I used to carry the tiller on the back of mine all winter as ballast. Chains are a must. If you have turf tires, there's little traction on snow and ice. Make sure your front tires are properly inflated too.



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Bill

12-10-2003 18:54:11




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 Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblower tract in reply to RayP(MI), 12-10-2003 18:21:09  
speaking of chains, I tried them 1/2 way through and It did not help...was that because the psi was too high/tires too hard???? The dealer said that the chains are only for ice, that the chains put less surface area on the road tha the rubber, thus you spin more!????? ? With all the $$$ spent on a nice machine, I did not appreciate the lousey, bumpy ride that the chains gave! What do you guys run for tire pressure? Also it looks like my skid plate is down as fare as it will go (too far down???) Isn't it supposed to be just off the surface????? If it's scraping the surface, wouldn't that cause the tires to spin? Thanks again, Bill

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arthur

12-10-2003 20:45:29




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblower t in reply to Bill, 12-10-2003 18:54:11  
have a nice smoth ride on spinning wheels or alittle bumpy rire wile you push the snow off the driveway.with snow on the drive it does rire a little smother but chains ar worth there cost



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Bill

12-11-2003 05:33:39




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblow in reply to arthur, 12-10-2003 20:45:29  
First, thanks to all replies...appreciate them very much....One last question! If "Turf" tires have poor traction snow and ice, wouldn't traction be substantially better with much more aggressive tread..... the type that are on every standard snowblower????? ??? I assume that the turf tires are standard because the manufacturer assumes that most folks will just mow grass. A change to an aggressive snow tread (although more expensive, plus the additional rims) would seem a huge improvement! Curious, Bill

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RWK in WI

12-11-2003 05:27:27




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snowblow in reply to arthur, 12-10-2003 20:45:29  
About tire chains & tire preasure.
For early season storms and when on hard paved serfaces I run recomended tire preasure or on the low side. It allows the tire to form around the tire chain and force it to bite into the snow on the surface and not slide. When I am working on a hard frozen ice pack after several plowings I run a higher tire preasure to force the chains to bite into the ice pack.
Depending on the tire chains you are using you can get much better results and a smoother ride by using tire chains based on "two link spacing" rather than the common / cheaper "four link spacing" . By having more cross links you are constantly riding on chain rather than droping off and then have to climb back on a chain crosslink. Better traction and a better ride. All of my units from the smallest self propelled snowblowers to my yard tractor to my bigger 60+ HP tractors and my trucks have chains on two link spacing. For my large tractors that run double ring chains I have to buy two sets and take the links from one set to make the other set to two link spacing but it is worth it. If you want to see how two link spacing is different than four link spacing you can look at the "tirechains.com" web site.
I hope this helps you

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Bill

12-11-2003 05:43:59




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ snow in reply to RWK in WI, 12-11-2003 05:27:27  
....thanks RWK!!!!! !!!!! !! I will check out two links at tire chains.com..... ..PS my reason for asking about more aggressive tires is I'm up in Vermont! thanks, Bill



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RWK in WI

12-11-2003 06:08:54




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor w/ in reply to Bill, 12-11-2003 05:43:59  
Yes, tire patterns help some. New tractor tires are better than worn ones. All terain / snow tires are better than highway pattern. But all tires will slip on slippery surfaces. Weight is the answer for slow speed work. If you do get an extra set of wheels and tires you can have them filled with calcium cloride for weight. But remember that more agressive tire will allow chains to drop off the top of the tread so you would like more agressive chains. You can modify chains to the field pattern ( Duro Grip ) style. You do have wheel weights on your tractor don't you? They used to sell them with the snowblowers but now maybe you have to ask for them seperately.
Ask if you have more questions.

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Bill

12-11-2003 06:51:56




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tractor in reply to RWK in WI, 12-11-2003 06:08:54  
yes I do have wheel weights, I don't think their over 40-45 lbs each.....maybe more, I never weighed them. I wanted to add some more weight but the Toro folks said no, that the fluid and the wheel weights were sufficient. I'm only 150 lbs +, Joe Blow who buys the same tractor and weighs 200 + has a nice extra 50lb weight advantage that has to help!!!!! My turf tires had 20+ psi when I used them the 1st time and maybe they had lousey traction because they were so hard! There set at 9 psi now! The Berco 40" blower calls for 7-9 psi, but they don't mention tires filled with liquid. Bill

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RWK in WI

12-11-2003 13:22:42




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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Toro Lawn tra in reply to Bill, 12-11-2003 06:51:56  
Tire preasure is the same air filled or liguid filled. Yes, droping the preasure will help as the blower company knows. You're right add more weight probably to the back end / hitch area. If you have a teenager or a helper try the tractor and then have them stand on the rear hitch area and see the difference.
Tire chains will help even with the blower scraping the pavement clean ther is a layer of snow that freezes allmost at once and is icey. I hope this helps you.

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